Quantcast

Is this a thing with 357 in Revolvers?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Ru4real, Oct 18, 2020.

  1. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    I have a couple revolvers stick spent cases for several powders. Is this normal?

    For example, with 158 JHP at table maximums for powders Accurate #9, Alliant 2400 and HS-6 it’s pretty difficult to work the ejector rod having started with a clean revolver. After shooting these powders in the same shooting session, now a dirty revolver, I shoot 10 rounds with maximum H110 and the spent cases drop out.

    I’ve never experienced this in 45 Colt at some high “Ruger Only” pressures.

    Is it the smaller 357 case diameter combined with higher pressures and cylinder wall flex?
     
    rwilky78 likes this.
  2. Catpop

    Catpop Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,245
    Location:
    Jack's Neck, NC
    How do those cases that stuck in chambers function on the second reloading? Do they freely drop into chambers or are they tight?
     
    Ru4real likes this.
  3. murf

    murf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,991
    Location:
    arizona
    what revolvers?

    murf
     
    Ru4real likes this.
  4. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    8,328
    Could be your gun has tight chambers and is prone to sticky extraction for various reasons. Max loads of faster powders generally create sharper pressure curves and thus may expand the brass a hair more. Could be your source for max H110 loads is not creating the same max pressure as your other max loads.
     
    .308 Norma and Ru4real like this.
  5. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    Don’t know, haven’t reloaded those cases yet.
     
  6. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    New S&W 586 w/6” barrel and 0.357” throats
    New Kimber K6S w/4” barrel and 0.361” throats

    C53C568B-8DF2-40FE-A76A-B5B4BEB9A4F7.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    rwilky78 likes this.
  7. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    That’s what I was thinking, spike, even though the tables show about same max pressure for loads at max.

    But really, I just beginning with 357, so I’m pretty dumb right now.
     
  8. murf

    murf Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,991
    Location:
    arizona
    is there any black soot on the fired cases (the stuck ones)? other than sooty cases, the only other reason for stuck cases is high pressure, imo. can you charge some loads with powder from the middle of the powder range and see if the problem goes away? i would suggest running a few factory rounds through the guns if you have access to factory rounds.

    murf
     
    Ru4real likes this.
  9. UncleEd

    UncleEd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    N. Georgia
    OP seems to be loading at max for the
    reloading tables. Not always a good idea
    before working up loads with lesser power.

    Guns of the same brand and type and year
    can vary. Also same brands of brass can
    vary from lot to lot as to how much expansion
    occurs.

    Also, since he's loading at max, I believe, he
    should keep an eye on the shape of fired primers.
    Rounded ones, OK. Flattened or flatter ones,
    beware.
     
  10. Sneakshot92

    Sneakshot92 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    784
    Location:
    WI
    Ok. I gotta ask.. How does that 586 shoot? She's awful purdy! Hopefully she shoots as good as she looks.
     
    Armored farmer and Ru4real like this.
  11. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    I did work up. And at max, primers look like it, also.
     
  12. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    I handled a new 586 two years ago. I shouldn’t have waited two years to buy one because it shoots pretty good. Right out of the box it’s good.

    But...I tinker, so you’ll notice I modified the factory stocks for one finger groove to keep my grip the same, shot to shot, with heavy loads. I’ve also had it apart and polished the internals and lightened the trigger pull. This one (maybe all L frames?) needs the trigger spring tight (factory setting) for CCI primers.

    I’ve seen a few new 586’s and in my opinion, this new generation as are as nice as the 586 no dash, circa early 1980’s. Every new 586 I’ve seen has been absolutely beautiful with beautiful stocks. Will this one shoot as well as the reputation of a 586 no dash? Well maybe, maybe not. Out of the box, it’s looking like NO. I was bidding on 586 no dashs’ when I bought this one and they were selling for $100 to $300 more.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  13. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,912
    Location:
    SE Idaho
    Ru4real, just to be clear - you didn't start with the maximum listed powder charges when you started loading for those two .357 revolvers did you? As UncleEd wrote, "Not always a good idea." But I'll go further than that - starting off with maximum loads in a gun you've never reloaded for is never a good idea.

    I have - "Ruger Only" loads with 296 in a Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt left me with removing the cylinder and using a mallet and punch to get the stuck cases out. It scared the heck out of me. But that really had absolutely nothing to do with what are, and what are not maximum loads in my 357s. For that matter, a maximum load in one of my 357s is not necessarily a maximum load in my other 357.
     
    ArkieVol and Ru4real like this.
  14. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    10,413
    Location:
    Middle Tn
    I have to say that I agree with this. I have some ridiculous .357 loads that only go through 2 of my incredibly overbuilt guns, and do so with only the least bit of sticking or primer deformation. I would not call either of those guns weak, but I also would not put them up to repeatedly firing “max” loads from a book without a load workup. Sticky brass is an indication of a problem, and if you keep going with that problem it will eventually bite you. Back it off a bit until your sticky extraction issue goes away.
     
  15. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    Cases at max are clean. Cases at less than max, especially for HS-6, are sooty.
     
  16. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    My first hundred or so rounds were 158 grain Speer SWC with 5 grains of Tightgroup and WSP primers. Chrono at 900 fps.

    Then I worked up middle burn rate powders like Accurate #9 and Hodgdon HS-6 with JHP bullets, magnum primers. Chrono at 1100 fps.

    Then I took middle burn powders along with slower powders like H110 and 2400 with JHP bullets, magnum primers up to max current published data (web site loading tables for all three brands). Chrono at 1200 to 1300 fps yesterday. So today I thought I’d ask HighRoaders.

    For example, I shot 20 rounds of 2400 at max. One cylinder extracted ok, the rest were pretty stiff. The HS-6 cases were the hardest to extract. All were stiff enough (except the H110 loads) that I thought it would be horrible in a defensive or hunting situation.

    I didn’t try Blue Dot, because a 357 shooter gave me a bunch 20 years ago. He said it caused his cases to stick, bad. So when yesterday happened, I started to think, “Is this sticking a normal thing with 357?”

    I appreciate all the ideas and insight everyone has provided so far. Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  17. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    Maybe to re-ask a different way.

    Do your cases extract easily when you use 158gr JHP bullets when loading at current maximum published data for powders Accurate #9, Alliant 2400, Alliant Blue Dot or Hodgdon HS-6?
     
    .308 Norma likes this.
  18. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Messages:
    1,222
    Had a revolver do that and I polish chambers with steel wool periodically and it stays smooth.
     
    Ru4real likes this.
  19. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    Now why didn’t I think of that? Both guns are new, so maybe this is a tweak I will have to do to both revolvers. To the naked eye, the chambers look like mirrors already, but still...

    Maybe 357 is more sensitive to imperfections in cylinder wall, compared to a larger caliber like 44 mag or 45 Colt? I’m only guessing here.

    Thanks!
     
  20. UncleEd

    UncleEd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    N. Georgia
    As .44 mag guru Elmer Keith wrote, when the
    extraction gets sticky you've gone too far.

    Although he swore by 2400, after a period of
    development his loading was always below the
    so-called maximum.
     
    Catpop and Ru4real like this.
  21. dahermit

    dahermit Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    South Central Michigan
    Sticky extraction = exceeding maximum for your gun.

    Back off slightly with those powders and the difficult extraction will magically disappear.
     
  22. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    4,580
    Location:
    Ca.
    Just a-wondering, have you shot .38 Spl. In these guns?

    If no, no worries.

    If yes, there could be a bit of deposit near the .357 case mouth from the shorter .38 Spl. being fired. I shoot a lot of .38 Spl., so .357 will stick a bit with stiff loads if my guns’ chambers weren’t cleaned and scrubbed really well before going to .357 medium up towards max loads.

    That is a nice pair of .357 revolvers, great choices :thumbup:.

    Stay safe.
     
    grammontS, Ru4real and .308 Norma like this.
  23. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Messages:
    1,222
    Happened with mine using factory ammo. 240 JSP, 1190 FPS.
     
    Ru4real likes this.
  24. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Utah
    That may be where I end up.
    For example, 2400 at 0.7 grains less than maximum was fine for extraction, and accuracy was pretty good, too.
     
  25. UncleEd

    UncleEd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    N. Georgia
    Regarding 2400:

    I believe Keith finally settled on a load 10 or more
    percent lower than the 22 grains he had taken it
    to with his heavy wadcutter cast bullets.

    And a warning, the 2400 of today ain't what it
    was in his day.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice