Is this AR worth it? Daniel Defense

[Sam1911]

Therein lies the rationale I use that tends to make me spend more $ to avoid buyers remorse-if I'm going to have said rifle, scope, etc. for 30+ years (hopefully!), then why should one be concerned over an extra $300-$400?

Not a bad way of looking at it, but i think most of us on the "don't" side of the argument have a hard time imagining that any rifle, scope, handgun, shotgun, etc, which we might pick up today -- especially as a first purchase in a particular field -- will still be "the one," or even "one of the ones," or even still interesting 30 years from now. More likely we'll have bought, enjoyed, modified, swapped parts on, sold, loved, hated, and forgotten about lots of guns in that time. So spending a big chunk of money on someone else's version of "TEH BEST!" seems silly when you can get deep into this style of rifle and try to figure out what you like and don't like for 1/3rd the cost.

If this is a marriage of man and rifle until death do you part, well sure, buy the most well-spoken-of rifle you can and hope you can learn to love it for who it is and not wish you had a newer model that's a little lighter and has nicer lines.

Most of us expect to play the field and have more casual, possibly temporary, love affairs with the rifles that come our way, and only settle down to "THE ONE" once we've got a more developed idea of which one will be our soul mate.

 

[Averageman]

Primary Arms is running a sale now that is well below (several hundred dollars) the price the OP was quoted and the DD Rifles come with a free Aim Point PRO.
That's a deal that makes the deal a bit sweeter.
I believe it expires on Fathers Day.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

To each their own, but I've generally had better luck when buying something better than I probably need vs the cheapest I can find. YMMV.

 

[Davek1977]

While what you say has merits, there's a HUGE middle ground between the "$499 AR's" and the DD rifles. For many, the Colt was the standard others were judged by for years, and even they can be found under $900. Steering someone away from a DD rifle for a first AR isn't necessarily the same as telling them to buy the cheapest rifle they can find. Why does everyone reduce the choices to either extreme, when the right choice may very well be somewhere in between?

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I don't think anyone is saying it's either $2000 or the cheapest out there. I'm just pointing out that buying something that exceeds your need is better than erring the other way if you're gonna err (and assuming that you can afford it).

 

[HexHead]

One of the things I hate about THR, is pretty much whenever anyone posts about buying something really nice, at the "luxury" end of the scale, the Greek Chorus comes out to deride his choice with cheaper alternatives. Rarely is there the "Hey, that's a great xxx, congrats you'll really like it". Nothing but a bunch of sour grapes.

I can see warning off someone thinking about buying a real piece of crap, like the guy that wanted to spend less than $50 for a scope, but the attitude around here when someone can afford the best and wants to buy it, stinks.

 

[Averageman]

One of the things I hate about THR, is pretty much whenever anyone posts about buying something really nice, at the "luxury" end of the scale, the Greek Chorus comes out to deride his choice with cheaper alternatives. Rarely is there the "Hey, that's a great xxx, congrats you'll really like it". Nothing but a bunch of sour grapes.

I would concur, and

Primary Arms is running a sale now that is well below (several hundred dollars) the price the OP was quoted and the DD Rifles come with a free Aim Point PRO.
That's a deal that makes the deal a bit sweeter.
I believe it expires on Fathers Day.

If you consider the price of the optic and the savings at Primary Arms, you'll find it a bit more difficult to objectively find a better deal on a rifle of the quality with a "free" optic.
I'm happy for the guy and hope he enjoys it.

 

[Lord Teapot]

I don't think anyone is saying it's either $2000 or the cheapest out there. I'm just pointing out that buying something that exceeds your need is better than erring the other way if you're gonna err (and assuming that you can afford it).

if you've $2000 to spend, you've $600 to spend, and it isnt like you cant sell the $600 rifle and buy a better one if you feel like it. no need to jump right into buying a $2000 rifle that's going to be tough to re-sell if you end up not liking it.

 

[HOOfan_1]

One of the things I hate about THR, is pretty much whenever anyone posts about buying something really nice, at the "luxury" end of the scale, the Greek Chorus comes out to deride his choice with cheaper alternatives. Rarely is there the "Hey, that's a great xxx, congrats you'll really like it". Nothing but a bunch of sour grapes.

Well, the first post specifically asked if there were cheaper alternatives.

 

[Lord Teapot]

One of the things I hate about THR, is pretty much whenever anyone posts about buying something really nice, at the "luxury" end of the scale, the Greek Chorus comes out to deride his choice with cheaper alternatives. Rarely is there the "Hey, that's a great xxx, congrats you'll really like it". Nothing but a bunch of sour grapes.

I can see warning off someone thinking about buying a real piece of crap, like the guy that wanted to spend less than $50 for a scope, but the attitude around here when someone can afford the best and wants to buy it, stinks.

re-read the opening post

 

[Sam1911]

Hex, maybe you should re-read the first post:

Is this AR worth it?

Would you pay 2 grand for a custom DD rifle?

Too much, could I do better for cheaper??

He never asked us to congratulate him on his choice, but to answer whether we would do what he's considering doing.

Seems folks have been appropriately honest with him.


If this was a, "Hey, check out my new rifle!!!" thread, it would be a different story.

 

[HexHead]

Hex, maybe you should re-read the first post:



He never asked us to congratulate him on his choice, but to answer whether we would do what he's considering doing.

Seems folks have been appropriately honest with him.


If this was a, "Hey, check out my new rifle!!!" thread, it would be a different story.

Fair enough. But there's no denying my observation is pretty common around here.

 

[OilyPablo]

Fair enough. But there's no denying my observation is pretty common around here.

You need to get out more often [emoji4] Pretty much all sites specialize in going low cost. It's a huge plus of the www BUT I agree it gets irritating when it's not the intent of the question.

 

[grter]

And the reverse is true for people justifying lavish expenses.

Turns out those garbage Savages everyone poo-pooed a couple decades ago actually have amazing design and inherent accuracy, and tend to outshoot guns 3 times their price.

Much of the wisdom in product purchases is not being conned into buying what you don't or won't ever need - the 'extras' that most people never ever utilize.
This is like the car salesman pushing a buyer to the next more lavish model that is really unnecessary.

Here the 'extras' are the rifle at 2-3 times the cost of one that would fill the need of nearly any job just fine.

I will readily admit that I own a handful of more expensive models of various guns. And they do nothing that the less expensive counterparts can do just as well.

The Timex vs. Rolex is a great analogy. A reliable time-piece is cheap. The extras are the name and design fashion. If you like throwing away money on fashion, then there's clearly a market for that.

It's not that. The AR platform is one that has actually extensively evolved through extensive use in battle.

I am not saying he needs to spend lavish amounts of money but a lack of certian upgrades that were added due to proof of their need when soldiers were killed because it, is going to throw the balance of it's advantages and disadvantages off enough to make that AR an undesirable low quality firearm.

You want dust covers, you want a forward assist you want chrome in all the right places. You want properly hardened parts that are in spec. These are not frills these are needed on an AR.

Unfortunately is was proven by loss of life and limb. I don't know how much more proof one needs.

This is a rifle that evolved from a total peice of garbage that only ONLY had excellent ergonomics light weight, and excellent accuracy going for it. The extras added have made it's reliability fair. It is the combination of the whole package that makes this a good rifle.

This part is just my opinion a 20 inch barrel is what is good and when you become a real good shot you are going to wish you had one. I find the older M16A1 20 inch pencil barrel to be king in terms of great balance and ergonomics, as far as range this is not opinion but fact a longer sight radius, more muzzle velocity, and better balistics (5.56 does not tumble and yaw reliably from short barrels) make for superior performance.

That should not be a revelation since the .223 and 5.56 cartridges were designed for barrels much longer than 16 inches.

 

[leadcounsel]

OP asked for price recommendations, value, etc.

Boom. I went to exactly 2 sites. Spent no time looking. You can certainly find better deals, even on the used market.

Folks can spend their money however they want - but for a novice shooter who really just needs to get into the gun and get ammo, trigger time, and training, it's silly to recommend the top end sports car AR15... IMHO. These guns are just fine for the beginner. If he loves it he can get a better one, trade it, upgrade it easily with a different upper and trigger, sell it and recoup most of his money, etc.

My interpretation from his purposes - he's a novice, totally new to the platform, wants a practical recommendation for a first AR15. This no doubt implies that he needs trigger time and training over the fanciest gun on the rack.

But lets be real. Lots of people buy over-priced sporting goods, and they sit in the corner and collect dust and are later sold at massive losses. Why not just see if you like it first before investing several weeks' salary (for the average person) into a rifle.

Folks - particularly novices - want to trick out their AR15s. But realistically, a beginner should have a basic AR to learn on. Learn iron sites. Don't need a forward grip. Don't need a quad rail. Don't need a bayonet. Don't need fancy custom sites. Don't need a laser or flashlight mount (unless it's immediately going to be learned and employed in home defense). Don't need a scope mount. Really probably can get by with a basic fixed or cheap adjustable stock for cost savings. These are all easy and cheap upgrades later if the rifle suits the person... A person isn't likely to break or shoot out the barrel...

$650, and all you need are optics/sites
http://www.jgsales.com/dpms-a-15-pa...,-5.56mm-223,-oracle-model,-new.-p-61602.html

$690
http://www.jgsales.com/armalite-semi-auto-def15f-sporting-rifle,-223,-16-bbl,-new-p-78121.html

$800, just need to buy mags
http://aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?...+16"+Midlength+Rifle+(No+Magazine)&groupid=11

I look at it like this. If I were new to any new hobby and was about to drop serious coin on a new item, I would be thrilled for experienced people to chime in with "just as good" recommendations for my novice intentions - fishing gear, road bikes, new laptop, whatever. I'd be tickled if someone saved me 2-3 fold on something that works just as well for my purposes.

 

[Robert]

OP there is a ton of good advice and some not so good iin this thread but at this point we are going around in circles over things people did or didn't read in the first post.