Is this AR worth it? Daniel Defense

[sappyg]

When it comes to ARs I don't see how you can get stuck with an unsupported cheap one. Insert ammo... Pull trigger.... Repeat.
If something breaks just replace it and move on. There is no voodoo with an AR that I can tell. DDs are nice to have but unessessary. If I had 2k for an AR id rather buy a $500 AR and $1500 in ammo than a 2k AR and no ammo.

 

[NWcityguy2]

Cheap, inexpensive, commercial, mil-spec, civilian, government, tactical, tacti-cool, etc.

This isn't the days of ABC (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt). There are no clear cut lines about what is what anymore. You can shoot 1.5moa with a $1500 BCM, $900 Colt, $800 Spikes or a $600 PSA. And you can do it for thousands and thousands of rounds before anything major is likely to fail. Since I started shooting a few thousand rounds a year, I've spent virtually all of it on ammunition (reloading components to be exact), and virtually none of it on replacement parts. Unless a shooter is looking for extreme accuracy, there is very little difference between the brands being recommended.

This will decrease your chances of getting stuck with an unsupported jamomatic or something that is going to tie you down to it's lack of quality and shortcommings

I haven't seen anyone mention a gun that falls into this category yet. You can stand down from Red Alert.

 

[Inebriated]

OP's had a couple threads now about choosing an AR.

As I'm fairly certain I said in one of those other threads, you need to sit down, define your use case for the gun, and buy a gun that fits that, rather than just buying because it says Colt or Daniel Defense on the side.

Maybe I missed it, but it's impossible to say whether a $2k AR is worth it without knowing what you will realistically be doing with it.

 

[bikemutt]

I've shot about every class of AR15 in 556/223 I can imagine from the cheapest to the top of the line LWRC and Knights Armament (thanks to friends who own those two). Is there a difference from top to bottom? Absolutely. The expensive rifles have better parts and pieces and, someone has done the homework to merge all these parts in a meaningful, synergistic fashion.

I don't see the reason to spend $2k on a person's first AR15 when $600 or so will get your feet wet so you learn what things are important to you. Then, take that knowledge to your next build/purchase.

 

[FrankCastleThePunisher]

I've been receiving emails from Daniel Defense website seeing their rifles in the $1749.00 price range, and you might find them a little cheaper at your LGS. I love my 5 year old DD rifle.

 

[Davek1977]

I'm going to echo the words of many a wise poster here.....$2k is far more than one needs to, or even should, spend on one's first AR. A $600 SW Sport or something similiar will do everything 95% of shooters need or want an AR to do. I don't mean this as condescending, but judging from previous posts, I don't think you fit into the 5% of shooters than will ever fully realize where that other $1400 went, to be perfectly honest. I KNOW I wasn't in the elite operator category, and my $600 AR has killed deer,plinked, punched paper, rode companion in the pickup truck, etc and has yet to fail me in any fashion. I could have spent $1400 more.....but why? This AR does everything I bought an AR to do, and does it well.

 

[Sam1911]

I'll try to re-frame the discussion a bit by splitting what you're paying for into separate facets:

In buying a top tier AR you're getting:

1) Super Parts: Yup. If you buy a Daniel Defense rifle you're going to get things like their float tube and grip and stock and maybe a few other parts that you can only get from DD, because that's their proprietary version of that item. Those parts are nice, no doubt about it. Are they MUCH nicer than someone else's float tube, stock, grip? Only if they are for YOU, but you don't know that yet. And real experienced users who simply MUST have this or that exact float tube rarely just choose whatever the factory (even DD) put on the rifle to begin with. There are other companies that make float tubes that are just as nice or better and cost 2/3 what DD wants for theirs. Same with all the other bibs and bobs. e.g.: barrels. You'll get a great barrel. Several companies make GREAT barrels. Why are you convinced that you want exactly the parts they want to sell? Why are you convinced enough to pay at least twice what other nice guns cost?

2) Reliability: This is compelling. Their reputation does carry with it the idea that any gun they let out the door will run right and run long. But here's the thing -- ANY AR that is put together will run right and run long. And DD has to do warranty work just like S&W has to, and Noveske has to, and Spike's has to, etc. And bolts, springs, and other bits do eventually break or wear out, regardless of who made them. You need to be ready to replace those parts no matter who's name is on the rifle, because that's part of maintaining and operating your firearm. As long as you test your rifle out and it runs well with good ammo, that's really all you need to know about reliability. "Filthy 14" (google that name) isn't a Noveske or a DD. It's a BCM. When you've run well over 40,000 rounds through a rifle without really bothering to even clean it, it really doesn't matter who made it, it's a good rifle.

3) Name cachet. Yup, you won't get all the "cred" of the DD logo if you're shooting an M&P or Colt. But the people you really should CARE about impressing won't be impressed at what stamp is on your rifle.

 

[SSN Vet]

If I was buying an AR for use as a duty rifle (LEO or contractor in Iraq) I could see spending $2K.

But for the average Joe, who wants a reliable and fun AR, primarily for range use and as a home defense (SHTF) rifle, then any $600 to $800 AR would do fine.

If you have the doe and want high quality, Colt ARs are a real deal these days.

Take the rest of you money and buy a 1,000 round case of ammo and after you've shot that up, you'll know the platform well and be in a much better position to make informed choices about rifle mods. And even if you aren't comfortable assembling a lower, anyone who ever played with Lego blocks can swop uppers, stocks, charging handles, sights, optics, etc.... That's the whole 'modular design" aspect of the AR.

I'm a big advocate of buying firearms in the caliber they were initially designed for. 7.62x39 AKs, .45 acp 1911s, 9x19 BHPs, and 5.56x45 ARs, as the entire platform was designed around those parameters. After your well familiar with the AR in it's original chambering, you'll better understand the strengths and weaknesses of the cartridge.

If you absolutely must spend that kind of money on your first AR to make yourself happy, buy a flat top colt and then drop a spiffy high end optic on it.

imo, 300 Blackout is a reloaders cartridge... you won't shoot a rifle chambered in 300 Blackout a whole lot if you don't reload.

 

[HJ857]

Just for the sake of making sure the OP is up to speed.

The lower is universal and any AR15 format upper will fit right on to it.

So you can buy a different upper later on and still use the same lower.

This is way more cost effective. For example, I have two lowers and four uppers and just mix and match them as needed.

So I'm going to agree with others that recommend just going to a local shop and picking up a Colt complete rifle for around $800. This is definitely the best way to go.

I would also agree that the Smith and Wesson M&P models are nice and Rock Rivers are very accurate rifles but a little more expensive in general.

You can get a better trigger, like a Rock River National Match or an ALG ACT trigger for under a hundred bucks every day of the week. Installation is easy and you can figure it out by watching youtube videos.

At some point in the future you'll figure out if you need a different upper.

 

[MCMXI]

Start cheap and see if you like the AR. Then after shooting one for awhile you will have a better idea of what you want in an AR. There are a million options.

Unlike many here (since I actually own/use a couple) I have no problem with $2K + ARs but this is good advice and it's what I did. Many years ago I bought a Bushmaster lower and a DPMS upper and figured out what I like and dislike. I still have the lower and upper but have changed out many parts including the barrel (three times), forend, trigger, stock and more. I then bought a couple of POF rifles that cost around $2k each and finally bought a Bushmaster upper in .450 Bushmaster to go with a Bushmaster lower I bought years ago.

 

[Baldman]

I went through this whole process myself a few years back and ended up getting a very basica rifle. In my case it's and M&P 15. By today's compariosns I over paid as I purchased around the time of the panic. I wasn't sure I could build one and couldn't tell you one name from another other than the big names I new as a kid, so I picked the Smith and Wesson for a then reasonable price. I sued it stock for a while, then added a new stock, verticle foregrip, took off the carry handle sight and put on a flip up and have also added a red dot. At the time of my purchase I didn't feel I could build my own but now if a want to I feel that I could.

In a round about way I'm trying to say get a good quality gun, there are many brands available, in whatever your price range is, get ammo and shoot it. You may love it as it is or you may want to tinker a bit which is half the fun of an AR.

As many have said before determine what you want it for, Self defense, targter plining, long range, 3 gun, etc. The use will dictate what you need.

 

[OilyPablo]

I have a DD M4V3 that I have owned for 4 years. $1500. At that time middle decent ARs were $1200 or so. Now middle decent ARs are under $1000 so that price does seem high. But does that price include a custom trigger? What other goodies? All this said I remain delightfully happy with my DD purchase.

 

[leadcounsel]

$2000!!!

Not a chance.

An off-the-shelf professionally built high quality AR which suits 99.9% of needs can be had right now for $700.

Take your $2000 and buy a $500-700 AR, buy 20, $10 magazines, buy 2000 rounds of ammo, and pay a few hundred for a class. You'd be worlds ahead of any marginal imperceivable advantages a $2000 AR will offer.

DO NOT start by building your own. Advice to do it on your own is terrible advice. Especially given your obvious (no offense meant at all) lack of gun knowledge. Building an AR requires some level of knowledge of ARs, how they operate, how they should look and feel, function checking, etc. Ignore anyone telling you to build your own at this early stage.

It does require both common and specialized tools to build one. If you were to just make a list of tools, you'd be out easily $50 maybe even $100. The stock wrench along is specialized and $25. You also need plyers, punches, grips, a vice, etc.

And for an AR it'll go to your local FFL not to your doorstep. Yes you'll need to pass the background check before taking possession.

 

[leadcounsel]

NO no no you get what you pay for and government contract rifles are generally much (did I say much) much more better built than your average civilian versions (and you get the often over over rated rock and roll switch too [full auto] but it's a nice perc.)

It is important that you know what you intend to use it for and plan ahead if you even have a slight thought that you will be moving up because upgrades or entirely new gear are more expensive in the long run than getting right the first time.

I do not like 16 inch barrel ARs because the round is optimized for barrels 20 + inches and the 16 inch compromise is in my opinion a lot of loss for the rounds potential.

This information is beyond nonsense and should be ignored. The 7075-T6 aluminum lower is standard and milspec. Failure rates on these is almost unheard of. You can get them, currently, for as low as $40.

Off-the-shelf $300 uppers will perform perfectly out to hundreds of yards with trivial bullet drop. I've qualified expert on the M4, and it easily hits at point of aim at 300 yards.

Unless a person is out to push his AR to 800 yards, the $700 16" off-the-shelf from any major manufacturer will do everything a typical owner needs, and not even break a sweat.

If you don't care about a forward assist or dust cover, here's an SW for $600. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SW811036MAGPUL

 

[JamieC]

I built a $700 AR for my first one. Now that I have reloaded some different loads and see what my gun likes, I can do 1-2" groups @ 100 yards. My advice, build a good, inexpensive AR. Take the money you saved from buying the DD, enroll in a couple of tactical classes. You'll get good with the gun and have a GREAT time, PRICELESS!!

 

[Inebriated]

Built a $2000ish DDM4 just now.

$686 for their lower with a Geissele SSA.... Consider an SSA costs $220, that means their complete lower is $466. That isn't terribly out of line with BCM's complete for about $395. If you had a 'smith install the trigger, you'd probably be looking at a $25 difference or so. No complaints on that end.

Their A4 upper receiver is $145... Not awful, I'm sure if you had another upper receiver laser engraved with your own logo, you'd be somewhere near that.

Barrel assembly is $345. Assume $65 for the gas block and gas tube, a $280 made-in-house CHF chrome-lined HP/MP barrel isn't bad at all.

$60 flash hider/compensator. Right in line with a lot of other combo devices.

$205 Chrome plated BCG, only $10 more than their standard, which is only a few bucks higher than comparable brands. I'd pass on a build, but when broken down as part of a complete rifle, I see no problem with that.

$136 front and rear sights... no complaints, DD's fixed sights are my favorite.

At $1580 for a top-tier AR without a handguard. That isn't bad, but what launches it into the next price bracket is the handguard. $395 for their 12" DDM4 quad rail. While the rail is a fantastic piece of machine work, it is overkill for a lot of users. DD's rails have always been priced rather proudly.

So if you ask me if that $2000 is there? Absolutely. Every part of the gun is built with the utmost quality and attention. But do you need what that $2000 buys? Probably not. In fact, if you're asking about it on a forum, I'm sure you don't.

 

[BLB68]

The Daniel Defense is probably fairly priced, but may be overkill for the intended use.

For a first AR, you could do something like this:

PSA Complete Lower $129.99

You could go for the MOE-equipped lower instead for another 30 bucks.

PSA Premium (FN Barrel) M4 Upper, sans BCG/CH $279.99

(I'm not seeing the MOE version here, but the MOE handguards are under $30.)

PSA 5.56 Premium HPT/MPI Full Auto Bolt Carrier Group - No Logo $89.99

PSA Mil Spec Charging Handle $22.99

Magpul PMAG (five of these @$14.99, but you may find them for less on another site) $74.95

Magpul MBUS 2nd generation rear sight $55.05


So, complete rifle with five magazines, no tools required to assemble: $652.96-682.96

1000 rounds of ammo for training practice: I found some PPU for $329.99

So, sitting at right around $1000 for rifle and training ammo, leaving another $1000 for training. (Or for training and an optic option.)

Note: See post 23 for an even less expensive option. The above is with "mil-spec" parts, in case you care about them, but the other build will work fine. Just add a rear sight or optic and magazines to it.

 

[MCMXI]

but what launches it into the next price bracket is the handguard. $395 for their 12" DDM4 quad rail. While the rail is a fantastic piece of machine work, it is overkill for a lot of users. DD's rails have always been priced rather proudly.

I like their rails. I have Modular Float 12.0 rails on two ARs and an Omega Rail on one of my POFs. I've never shot a DD AR, much less owned one, but the quality of the rails and their gas blocks makes me think that they would make a very good rifle.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Yes, a Daniel Defense AR with all the bells and whistles is worth it.

Recently I built my wife an AR.

I really liked the DD lightweight, midlength, hammer forged barrel and so I bought one along with their bolt carrier group and lower parts kit. The rest of the gun came from Spikes, BCM, ALG, and Magpul. Total cost was just over $800 with the biggest savings being the ALG rail.

She is totally pleased with the gun and it shoots great. I figure that the most critical parts in an AR are the barrel and bolt carrier. Yes, you can go ultra cheap on the other parts and have issues but most of the name brand stuff is good to go.

 

[Allen in MT]

Local pawn shop here has the S&W 15 with redfield red dot for $550.00.
check you local pawn shops first

 

[lovethosesooners]

I don't think anyone can say wither something is/isn't worth the $ to someone else and see that as a personal decision.

As far as value goes, that's very relevant IMO.....

When I bought the DDV7 that I have, there was about $300 difference between it and a "mid-tier" rifle, and to ME, it was worth it to me to be sure I didn't have the "buyers remorse" I so often get when I buy less than what I wanted-have ended up selling several guns by trying to save $, only to lose more $ when I sold it to buy what I wanted to begin with.

Given what you can buy some really great rifles for right now, such as M&P 15, Colt, etc., the spread would be much more and it would be more difficult for me to justify the extra $-this isn't likely to STAY the way it is now indefinitely though.

The rifle has been excellent/flawless, so definitely no regrets for me.

 

[TBH]

Let me say this, I own a D.D. and a $2600 Les Baer. Just finished building a $1500 Grendel.

The DDM4 or 5 was $1000 unfired. Do over? I would buy two DDs instead of a Les Baer. Only reason, I don't shoot enough or am good enough to take advantage of the high end LB. I have seen several DDs for sale lately for a grand. For me, a no brainer. Great rifle, bullet proof.

 

[Boxhead]

You can buy a DD Gunbroker or Guns International for a lot less than $2000. I own one (V7) and it is a fine rifle. I also own a PSA and it, too is a fine rifle. The cost of an AR depends substantially on what features you want. The PSA (I gave $600 for mine a year after I bought the DD) can be had for about half the DD (I gave $1250) and you can add features as you deem them necessary.

 

[Jackal]

Any reasonably skilled fellow with good/correct tools can build an AR on par with anything DD makes for around $1000. I just did and have in the past. Its not rocket science. A good armorers wrench, 3 punches, detent tool (not needed but best $10 you will ever spend), brass hammer/drift, vice blocks and done.

 

[HKGuns]

You can do better than 2 grand, but DD is solid stuff.