Is this as ridiculous as it sounds?

Status
Not open for further replies.
All of the guns with supressors that I have shot have not been necessarily known for accuracy Uzi, mp5sd , 10/22 with internally supressed barrel that was full auto ( nobody shot it br style ) and beretta 21 . The 21 had some kind of issue that was shaving pieces of the bullet of and sometimes landing on the shooters hands . I showed the problem to the guy that made it and he replied it probably needs to be line honed something is not in line( to say the least) . I didnt shoot the gun anymore after he repaired it or whatever . The uzi had a "universal " style of supressor that would fit on an M-16 and a G3 ( and probably whatever else had the same style of threaded barrel). That supressor probably had the wiper style of baffles in it and the guy told me that it had to go back to factory to be serviced every so often . I am sure that the holes in the baffles are bigger than bullet , but , they couldnt be too much bigger or the hot gasses would escape to rapidly . The one pistol that I have shot that should have been somewhat accurate was a p22 and like I posted above it wasnt . The wiper style must be the ones dont necessarily retain the accuracy b/c if something was touching the bullet it would certainly alter the path somewhat .
 
Bruno2, you never considered that your friend's P22/silencer combo might have had a problem that is leading to its inaccuracy? It is probably an adaptor problem mounting the silencer out of alignment with the bore that is making it inaccurate. Claiming that “a conventional style of suppressor (sic) on a rifle or pistol will kill accuracy” based upon a single observation of a suppressed P22 is not rational. Better you try to find out more before making such claims. Make this claim on http://www.subguns.com and http://www.silencertalk.com . The posters there might be able to provide some advice to your friend instead of condemning silencers as devices that degrade accuracy.

Instead of repeating yourself, why not tell us why silencer bore is the same size as the bullet? Posting what you know instead of what you can or can not imagine is a better way to go.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I used conical baffles for the 510 whisper silencer so I could reconfigure it for my 45 acp Enfield rifle by removing the spacers and stacking the baffles at the end of the can. My first three cans (300 whisper, 510 whisper, 22lr) were make from K or conical baffles. I prefer K baffles, but still use a conical baffle for the blast baffle as I think it make lead to less turbulence in the blast chamber and less disruption to the bullet path. But I do not have data to back this up.

I normally make the baffle with as large a cone as I can on my lathe. I space the baffles about the distance of one bullet length apart. I make a bearing surface on the conical baffles at least a half inch long to help keep the baffle aligned properly. K baffles align themselves. I make the baffle bore .025” to .070” larger than bullet caliber. Larger for the baffles farthest from the muzzle. If the barrel is not very straight or I can not be certain of very good alignment of the silencer to the bore, then I make the baffle bore larger. The silencer external dimensions are based on cartridge capasity and how much bulk I am willing to have added to the firearm.

I use aluminum and steel. Aluminum is good for most pistol and low pressure rifle silencers like the 300 whisper and 22lr. I use stainless for muzzle brakes and blast baffles most times. I use 4130 tubing for high pressure silencers like 5.56 and .308 because it is straight, stronger, cheaper and comes with a smooth finish inside and out.

½-28 means half inch wide and a thread pitch of 28 threads per inch. ½-28 is common for 22 caliber barrel threads at the muzzle. 5/8-24 is common for 308 and some that are larger.

I bought a grizzly lathe ($1500), wire feed welder ($400), band saw ($60), bench grinder ($50) just to make silencers. I learned how to operate the lathe while making my first silencer, it was easy to learn the basics, but I am still not very good at it. I recommend paying as much as you can afford on the lathe. The cheap 12” hobby lathes are a bad choice. If you plan on using the lathe for years, then get a good one, not like the cheap one I bought. I bought most of my stuff online or at Home Depot. Be very careful when ordering online; make sure the machine they ship matches the specs they list.

I made an excel spreadsheet to determine the volume a baffle would take up inside of the can and to estimate the more difficult internal measurements to make. I use trig equations to determine volume of the baffle based on a few easy to make measurements. It also showed me the weight of the finished product. Its biggest asset was to show me that the baffles and spacers needed to be very thin in order to not take up too much expansion volume in the can. After gaining some experience on the lathe, I did not use the spreadsheet to determine dimensions.

Ranb
 
Baffle strikes will make a suppressed firearm very inaccurate. I shot a suppressed Buckmark that was striking, but not enough to dent the baffle or end cap. Even though the bullets barely touched the baffles, this was enough to change impact by over two feet.

Silencers equipped with wipes can be very effective at reducing noise. From what I have read they are typically thick rubber disks with X shaped slots cut into them. The bullet passes through and the slots close again to retard the flow of gun powder gases. This makes the silencer very effective at reducing noise, for a while. Each bullet damages the wipe as it hits, eventually they are worn away and lose much of their effectiveness. From what I have read in Al Paulson’s Silencer History and Performance, 50 rounds is all one can expect before the wipes need to be replaced. The ATF prohibits silencer parts replacement except by licensed manufacturers. An exception to this is the replacement of wipes. Some people use a metal punch to cut new wipes from a sheet of rubber. Wipe equipped silencers do ruin accuracy at all but the shortest ranges though. This is why I will probably never make one.

Ranb
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If silencers kill accuracy, I guess the suppressed M110 SASS I shot a few weeks ago, and dinged three targets at three different ranges with the first three shots didn't get the memo.
Click to expand...

The first time I shot my suppressed firearms was a real treat. I had to adjust the scope a lot, especially for the subsonic weapons, but accuracy was not significantly affected out to 200 yards.

Ranb
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Did your buddy get his silencer from a reputable manufacturer that stands behind their product? Was he able to get it repaired? I hope he has not given up on gun mufflers.

How about you Bruno2? Do you stand behind the claims you made here?

Here is what can happen when a shooter gets a baffle strike.
bafflestrike.jpg

If you make baffles (not wipes) with a bore the same size as bullet caliber, then you can expect much worse.

Ranb
 
Last edited:
"...these games tend to strive for realisim(SIC)..." No they don't. To paraphrase Bugs Bunny, you can do anything in an animated cartoon or video game. Nothing real about any of 'em.
"...Baffle strikes will make a suppressed firearm very inaccurate..." If a bullet hits the baffles on its way out of the barrel, excessively bad things will happen that are far worse than poor accuracy.
 
these types of games introduce more new people to shooting then the NRA can dream of
Click to expand...

I can appreciate this statement. It is probably more accurate to say they introduce more people to different kinds of guns than actual shooting. Which I believe is an important first step.
 
As a player of COD4 I have to say I wouldnt take anything in that game for granted. Alot of inaccuracies with the weapons but also some good attention to detail, its a mix. I do think that what we see on TV and in other forms of entertainment (like video games) has a big influence on our interests. Not for 1 second however do I blame video games for somebody picking up a gun and killing someone, this is an ignorant easy-off excuse that prius-driving liberals seem to lean toward and makes me :banghead:
 
Suppressed shot firing firearms are probably most effective when they employ a captive system in the ammunition. The "shell" has a sealed portion containing the primer and propellant. On firing, the forward end of this sealed unit instantly deforms like a beer can left in a freezer, driving the shot down the barrel. As I recall, this was the system used in the modified Model 29 S&W .44 Magnums used by "tunnel rats" in Vietnam. The advantage of such ammunition is that it doesn't REQUIRE a suppressor. I don't know if it would be quieter with one.
 
From a civilian standpoint, the captive ammo system is completely impractical. Each cartridge by itself is a silencer as far as I know. $200 plus a pop. :( Sure is interesting though.

Ranb
 
From a civilian standpoint, the captive ammo system is completely impractical. Each cartridge by itself is a silencer as far as I know. $200 plus a pop. Sure is interesting though.

Ranb
Click to expand...

On the other hand, theoretically I suppose you could just reload the same ones over and over. Design it properly so they can be quickly and easily reloaded, and chamber it in something like a .44 Magnum snubbie, and then register five of 'em..and you'll have a suppressed revolver.
 
My roommate plays the game Counter Strike far too much. But in the game, one of the available guns is a SIG P228, albeit in .357 SIG (to avoid legal issues I believe). Though I can't vouch for how real anything in the game is, when I bought my P228, he'd actually heard of it before because of the game and was interested in going to shoot one in real life, as opposed to the game.

Recall the guy who bought a Subaru WRX STi based on his experience with it in a driving simulation. Well, some people have an interest in a certain firearm after playing a game that features it, and from there they might research it more and perhaps seek to find one, or at least dig deeper into the world of firearms.

On the opposite side, I have the urge to slap people when they tell me "There is no such thing as a Gewehr 98" and say that it is a "Gewehr 43" or "Karabiner 98" (mostly on youtube) because of what they have played in Call of Duty.
 
On the other hand, theoretically I suppose you could just reload the same ones over and over. Design it properly so they can be quickly and easily reloaded, and chamber it in something like a .44 Magnum snubbie, and then register five of 'em..and you'll have a suppressed revolver.
Click to expand...

Leave it to the ATF to ruin a good idea. All silencer parts are silencers by themselves. The only parts the ATF allows an unlicensed person to replace is wipes, after the old ones are destroyed. I'm sure the ATF would consider the propellant to be a part, therefore each and every refurbished cartridge would be another $200 tax.

Ranb
 
Last edited:
Another solution to the problem of suppressing shotguns has been to make silenced shells. I don't think they were used often, though.
 
Any of the manufacturers list on the silencer tests links page that make 45 acp cans would be a good choice. Just make sure you get one with a recoil booster so that the slide cycles. A google search will locate extended threaded barrels. I do not have a 45 caliber pistol silencer, so I can not talk from experience. The forums at silencertalk and subguns are a better place for opinions.

Ranb
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Dr T
  • Locked
Virtual Shooting
Replies
4
Views
502
mj246
M
P
  • Locked
Liberal City Folk Just Don't like Camping
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
evan price
evan price
R
  • Locked
Desensitization
Replies
14
Views
688
Ziryo
Z
V
  • Locked
Sounds like the $300 NRA Lifetime Membership referral program is active
Replies
2
Views
2K
Sweden
S
G
  • Locked
Words, and the wars thereof.
Replies
12
Views
694
joab
J
Back
Top