Is Winchester going to reintroduce the 1894
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ShunZu
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Question should've been: Is FN going to reintroduce the 1894. Browning bought Winchester, FN bought Browning. Is there any Winchester left? Methinks NOT. Other than paperwork and legal bs (i.e. copyrights, logos, trademarks and other crap that hurts my brain to think about).
Winchester died a long time ago. Damn shame, too. But that's what they get for making crap products in a time when merger & acquisition fever took over the world.
Winchester died a long time ago. Damn shame, too. But that's what they get for making crap products in a time when merger & acquisition fever took over the world.
By the time they do reintroduce it, nobody will give a crap. That's the chance they take, I guess.
I still think they should have exploited CAS and reintroduced the similar 1892 in pistol calibers some years back already. And I think they should do it now.
I still think they should have exploited CAS and reintroduced the similar 1892 in pistol calibers some years back already. And I think they should do it now.
ShunZu
member
Uberti, Hartford (EMF), Navy and many others recognized that a long time and WAY beat them to it. They'd be playing catch-up at this point. But I have to admit, anything that says WINCHESTER on it would give some of us old-timers a glint in our eye as we think of bygone days....
Yeah, though it's a mixed bag. For example, a Browning Citori shoots fine, but it just doesn't feel like a Superposed. Today's FN could suck the soul out of just about any gun design. They'd build it well, but there's something intangible that the things lack.
Hell, they should have had Uberti make some guns. Beretta beat them to it, though. How long before we see a Beretta 92 that isn't a pistol?
One problem with the 94 is that it's not that great for pistol calibers. Again, "Winchester" ought to reintroduce the 92 before it bothers with the 94. I love the 92 and so do a lot of other people. So-so Brazilian 92 knockoffs are going for as much as Winchester was getting for 94s before their demise.
And hope FN doesn't remove the je ne sais quois like it did with the shotguns. I've got to pick up a nice old Superposed before they get even MORE expensive.
The European company just owns the Winchester name (indirectly via Browning licensing the brand from Olin Corporation).
If the '94 does return, it'll most likely be built in the North Carolina FN plant, would still be American made, and probably better quality than what the Newhaven plant was turning out in recent years.
Denis
If the '94 does return, it'll most likely be built in the North Carolina FN plant, would still be American made, and probably better quality than what the Newhaven plant was turning out in recent years.
Denis
ShunZu
member
Very well said.
Fella's;
Gee, would that be like Ducati being owned by an American company? Which it was. Or, perhaps like Weiser locks being American, but made in Mexico?
The name's Winchester, the guns are made in an American plant that's called the Winchester plant.
Or, when your wife married you and changed her name, did she become a different person? Wait, don't answer that one.
900F
Gee, would that be like Ducati being owned by an American company? Which it was. Or, perhaps like Weiser locks being American, but made in Mexico?
The name's Winchester, the guns are made in an American plant that's called the Winchester plant.
Or, when your wife married you and changed her name, did she become a different person? Wait, don't answer that one.
900F
Geronimo45
Member
Just so happens that the European Company in question got its fame due to a certain American by name of Browning, after he left his job at Winchester.
Now, that European Company is a major supplier of firearms to militaries (US and UK among 'em) all over the world. Winchester, on the other hand, has had financial issues and seems to stick to the US civvie market. Winchester didn't care to innovate so much... FN did.
ugaarguy
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Very Good Chance
News from our shop's rep at a major distributor is that FN will be putting Winchester branded Model 70s and Winchester branded 1300s back on the market as soon as the union labor contract at the Newhaven, CT plant expires. Both are currently made at FNMI Columbia, SC. as FN Tactical products.
There is very strong consideration to produce the 94s there as well.
Remember that the FNMI plant produces over 70% of the small arms used by US Forces. The future of Winchester looks very good.
News from our shop's rep at a major distributor is that FN will be putting Winchester branded Model 70s and Winchester branded 1300s back on the market as soon as the union labor contract at the Newhaven, CT plant expires. Both are currently made at FNMI Columbia, SC. as FN Tactical products.
There is very strong consideration to produce the 94s there as well.
Remember that the FNMI plant produces over 70% of the small arms used by US Forces. The future of Winchester looks very good.
ShunZu
member
I got out the ol' Ouija board. Teddy Roosevelt is very happy
Browning never had a job at Winchester, or with any other maker. He was never on salary. But, FN does owe a great deal of its early existence to him.
Winchester-branded US guns will not be made in a plant called "The Winchester Plant". They'll be made in the FN plant by FN employees.
Denis
Winchester-branded US guns will not be made in a plant called "The Winchester Plant". They'll be made in the FN plant by FN employees.
Denis
FN-USA is already producing the 1300 pump and SuperX2 semi auto shotguns.
The Model 70 rifles are in the works but I don't believe any have actually arrived on the retail market, probably early 2008 before that happens.
As for the Model 94,,,,,,,probably will hit the market again, but it will be in limited runs and most likely in collectable formats, in example, 26" octagon barrel takedown in .38-55 caliber.
I very seriously doubt FN will bring the .30/30 caliber caliber carbine back as a Wally World sale item.
They don't tend to operate that way.
Another persistent rumor I keep hearing from the distributer side is that Miroku of Japan will be subcontracted to produce the rifles.
The FN-USA plant will not be involved in the production of the component parts, though the rifles may be assembled in house.
The Model 70 rifles are in the works but I don't believe any have actually arrived on the retail market, probably early 2008 before that happens.
As for the Model 94,,,,,,,probably will hit the market again, but it will be in limited runs and most likely in collectable formats, in example, 26" octagon barrel takedown in .38-55 caliber.
I very seriously doubt FN will bring the .30/30 caliber caliber carbine back as a Wally World sale item.
They don't tend to operate that way.
Another persistent rumor I keep hearing from the distributer side is that Miroku of Japan will be subcontracted to produce the rifles.
The FN-USA plant will not be involved in the production of the component parts, though the rifles may be assembled in house.
jacobhh
Member
While technically true, it's hair splitting. After the '86 and '92, who do
you think Browning telegramed immediately after hearing from his
patent attorney in 1894. "Oliver, remember that new smokeless
cartridge rifle design we were discussing?"
Not hair splitting at all.
Loads of people believe Browning worked "for" Colt, Winchester, and FN. He didn't. He worked in his own shop in Utah primarily with Colt & Winchester in developing certain designs, and spent time back East in both factories with design people at both companies, but never as an employee. He sold his designs on completion in this country, and had a permanent office in the FN building in Belgium (where he died in 1926), but was not on salary.
Denis
Loads of people believe Browning worked "for" Colt, Winchester, and FN. He didn't. He worked in his own shop in Utah primarily with Colt & Winchester in developing certain designs, and spent time back East in both factories with design people at both companies, but never as an employee. He sold his designs on completion in this country, and had a permanent office in the FN building in Belgium (where he died in 1926), but was not on salary.
Denis
JNewell
Member
We have a mix-up here.
This isn't a future event, it's a past event. USRAC was acquired by FN, a European company, in 1989. We've been living with a foreign "Winchester" gun company for more than 15 years.
BTW, the name is still owned by Olin. They licensed it to USRAC.
This point is interesting but only partly true:
What caused the Browning/Winchester split was his refusal to sell (as he had done in the past) the rights to what became the A5 to Winchester. That was a horrible, possibly early fatal, move by Winchester management.
This isn't a future event, it's a past event. USRAC was acquired by FN, a European company, in 1989. We've been living with a foreign "Winchester" gun company for more than 15 years.
BTW, the name is still owned by Olin. They licensed it to USRAC.
This point is interesting but only partly true:
What caused the Browning/Winchester split was his refusal to sell (as he had done in the past) the rights to what became the A5 to Winchester. That was a horrible, possibly early fatal, move by Winchester management.
Geronimo45
Member
I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing out the truth of the matter, sir.
J,
Until Browning realized that several of his designs were being bought by Winchester with no intention of producing them, and he was losing money over the long haul, and he then finally told Winchester he wanted to change the long-standing sale pattern to a royalty agreement (which did cause the split), his US designs were sold outright. It was one of the worst business decisions the president of Winchester ever made. FN was happy to arrange a royalty agreement with Browning.
I saw no need to go into the whole story. What I was trying to briefly say was that Browning's designs were his to sell, which generally would not have been the case if he'd developed them as an employee.
G,
You're very welcome. It's a common misperception.
Denis
Until Browning realized that several of his designs were being bought by Winchester with no intention of producing them, and he was losing money over the long haul, and he then finally told Winchester he wanted to change the long-standing sale pattern to a royalty agreement (which did cause the split), his US designs were sold outright. It was one of the worst business decisions the president of Winchester ever made. FN was happy to arrange a royalty agreement with Browning.
I saw no need to go into the whole story. What I was trying to briefly say was that Browning's designs were his to sell, which generally would not have been the case if he'd developed them as an employee.
G,
You're very welcome.
It's a common misperception.Denis
TimboKhan
Member
Nope, not hair splitting at all. While it is true that Browning sold a great many designs to Winchester, and was pretty exclusive to them over a period of about 17 years or so, he never worked for them, nor did he accept (or ask for) any sort of royalty. He simply sold his designs to Winchester, and that was pretty much it.
If a farmer sells his crop to the Piggly-Wiggly, that does not mean that the farmer works for the Piggly-Wiggly, right? Same thing with
Browning.
It is somewhat incorrect to say that one of the reasons he asked for royalties was because Winchester was buying guns that they never produced. That was something that happened from the beginning of the relationship all the way to the end. The decision to split over the A5 was a business decision on Brownings part. He felt that if he asked for what the design was worth outright, he would get turned down, and so he asked for royalties. Remember, Browning didn't invent the lever-action rifle, but as far as I know, he did invent the automatic shotgun. Big difference between improving a design and inventing a new one. It is also worth mentioning that the design was almost bought by Remington, except for the fact that the Remington boss (whose name I can't remember for some stupid reason) had a heart attack and croaked while Browning was waiting to see him. FN was happy to take his business, but it wasn't like they were his first choice.
Anyway, sorry for the thread-jack.
IOW, what's already been happening for a long time, with "special run" Japanese replicas of old Winchester lever guns.
If that's the case, it's really not going to be "reintroducing" anything other than marked up guns for collectors who, for some reason, don't want to spend their money on the real thing.
Too bad.
I'd like to see Marlin have some competition, so that Marlin keeps making their guns as well as they have been.
And I'd even buy an 1892 from FN if they made a top quality one that wasn't a $1200 instant "collectible".
BTW are they going to do a 70 Featherweight? That's the one that I wanted to buy, but missed out on. It's still the Model 70 that I'd like to own, but again, not as a collectible, as a hunting rifle.
Hank Dodge
Member
Browning and Winchester both offered limited runs of the 1886 and the 1892 in the not so distant past. All were made overseas at the Miroku plant in Japan. These were nicely made rifles of top quality and their price reflected that. I could see Miroku making a run of 1894s once all the legal paperwork is done.
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