I just got back from visiting Israel. Wow. Talk about firearms galore. Seemed like just about everyone carried. The military folks were open in talking about their M-4's and Tavors. I haven't seen a Tavor before so they were interesting to look at. Great country and I want to go back.
Israel
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USAF_Vet
Member
I spent a couple days in Israel several years ago. It's a definite trip. It was AF related, so we had our weapons. I carried my issued M-9, but my buddy carried his Desert Eagle 50. He had several offers to buy it or trade it. One guy offered a full auto Uzi for it.
Lot of history there, seems like everyeon is in condition yellow and hauling some serious firepower. I'd like to go back as well.
Lot of history there, seems like everyeon is in condition yellow and hauling some serious firepower. I'd like to go back as well.
tyeo098
Member
So here's the big moral question:
Would you rather have unrestricted firearm control to some people (a la Israel) to restricted firearm access to all people (a la the US)?
I guess it really depends on what group youre in...
LongTimeGone
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I visited Israel in 1978 with the Navy (before it all got crazy) and there were soldiers who seemed much younger than my 23 years carrying weapons everywhere.
I had a great time though.
I also had dinner with a friendly local family arranged by some Navy organization.
One of my best Med. port calls.
I had a great time though.
I also had dinner with a friendly local family arranged by some Navy organization.
One of my best Med. port calls.
MtnCreek
Member
Keep in mind Israel has been pretty much in a state of war since 1948 and allowing their enemy, some of whom live within their borders, to legally obtain weapons would be foolish.
Roan
Member
1978... before it got all crazy? See:
1948 Arab-Israel War
1956 Suez Crisis
1967 Six-Day War
1973 Yom Kippur War
1978 South Lebanon Conflict
That region has always been a contentious area and it's always been 'crazy'. Israel itself is remarkably open and free given the constant threats. It's a really fascinating country with a long and honored firearm tradition.
1948 Arab-Israel War
1956 Suez Crisis
1967 Six-Day War
1973 Yom Kippur War
1978 South Lebanon Conflict
That region has always been a contentious area and it's always been 'crazy'. Israel itself is remarkably open and free given the constant threats. It's a really fascinating country with a long and honored firearm tradition.
xsquidgator
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It's not so much that they're preventing their enemies from having firearms, they prevent mostly anyone non-Jewish who hasn't served in the IDF (or who is not a "settler") from being allowed to have one. Even for "allowed" Jewish Israeli citizens, the firearms are not a right, they're a privilege and one that can be quickly revoked. Our Israeli guide explained that the government would let you check out an M16 from the police in order to escort a school's field trip, but that was only because the .gov decided the M16 was needed for protection, and you had to return it to the police when the trip, and therefore the "need" for the gun, were done with.
That said, I enjoyed my visit to Israel and felt safest from attack when amongst a throng of soldiers/citizens carrying dozens of long guns and handguns. Were you to be allowed to immigrate, though, you could probably just forget about getting a permit for any kind of firearm.
That said, I enjoyed my visit to Israel and felt safest from attack when amongst a throng of soldiers/citizens carrying dozens of long guns and handguns. Were you to be allowed to immigrate, though, you could probably just forget about getting a permit for any kind of firearm.
LongTimeGone
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Yes, I know all that but in 1978 there was no local fighting or missiles or bombings.
There was a bus bombing shortly after I left, the first in a long while.
But while I was there , there had not been any large or small scale violence recently and it was relatively peaceful and I felt safe in the whole country .
There was a bus bombing shortly after I left, the first in a long while.
But while I was there , there had not been any large or small scale violence recently and it was relatively peaceful and I felt safe in the whole country .
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Cosmoline
Member
I'm seriously thinking of doing "Sar El" for an overseas vacation in the next few years.
http://www.sar-el.org/
One because I'm cheap and two because you get to live on an army base and clean things, including the horribly abused vintage M-16's
From what I've heard, their gun rights are based far more on socialist European standards than on any inherent RKBA. It's just that military service is so universal and pervasive you might not notice, and the violence has expanded the permission to settlers and the like to bear arms. It's a huge chess game over there that's been in play for over a century. If peace ever really comes to the area, it will be interesting to see whether Israelis are willing to hand over their firearms to the paper pushers. I very very much doubt it ;-)
http://www.sar-el.org/
One because I'm cheap and two because you get to live on an army base and clean things, including the horribly abused vintage M-16's
From what I've heard, their gun rights are based far more on socialist European standards than on any inherent RKBA. It's just that military service is so universal and pervasive you might not notice, and the violence has expanded the permission to settlers and the like to bear arms. It's a huge chess game over there that's been in play for over a century. If peace ever really comes to the area, it will be interesting to see whether Israelis are willing to hand over their firearms to the paper pushers. I very very much doubt it ;-)
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Sam Cade
Member
Israel has brutally restrictive firearms laws.
If you are a reservist you are allowed ONE handgun. One. Singular.
If you are a bus driver, One Handgun.
If a jewler/pawnbroker/moneylender, One handgun.
If you are a settler or business owner in one of the "exciting" areas you can have, guess what, ONE handgun.
What does this mean?
It means that most ultra orthodox jews who don't live in the "interesting" parts (and arent obligated to military service) can't own firearms.
Only about half of women do military service, so half can't own a weapon.
If you are a reservist you are allowed ONE handgun. One. Singular.
If you are a bus driver, One Handgun.
If a jewler/pawnbroker/moneylender, One handgun.
If you are a settler or business owner in one of the "exciting" areas you can have, guess what, ONE handgun.
What does this mean?
It means that most ultra orthodox jews who don't live in the "interesting" parts (and arent obligated to military service) can't own firearms.
Only about half of women do military service, so half can't own a weapon.
Sam Cade
Member
When Israel started pulling the settlers out a few years ago the first thing that they did was to disarm any group of settlers they thought would be a problem.
Sam Cade
Member
One of my wife's best friends is a sabra former kibbutznik now living in Tel-Aviv so we spend a couple weeks there every year.
If you like the beach, go to Israel, go to the beach. Its nice.
If you want to support a system who is perfectly willing to sell defense technology to the Chinese, contrary to the U.S interests, then by all means do Sar-El.
Don't ever forget that Israel is at its core a conservative theocratic state with core values to match and an exploding ultra-orthadox population. Israel is NOT a friend of the US but only an ally of convenience. Israel is in it for itself.
SSN Vet
Member
Well given that they've been left high and dry so many times in the past..... can you really blame them.
I wish I could say the same for the U.S.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Let's keep the discussion focused on firearms, ok?
In what country if any, can an American carry for protection. Like years ago you could get a license from the local big shot in Mexico. Anywhere allow us undesirables, to pack heat other tha military or FBI. "realize some don't even allow that, but anyone know who does.
I stopped travelling abroad a few years prior to 911. because I just didn't feel safe anymore. Even the islands, "all of them" were getting too anti american.
I stopped travelling abroad a few years prior to 911. because I just didn't feel safe anymore. Even the islands, "all of them" were getting too anti american.
Sam Cade
Member
No problem in the Czech republic provided you have permanent residency. Can't think of any others that actually have a functional government....
Sealand maybe.
If by "the islands" you mean the Caribbean, its a good call since they have some of the highest homicide rates in the world. Jamaica has a rate of 60/100k which makes it about twice as deadly as nice places like South Africa or Columbia.
bushmaster1313
Member
True story:
A young Air Force soldier was on a bus and when he got off he left his pistol behind.
Passengers were really, really really upset and franticly made the driver go back and find the soldier..
Were they upset because they thought he was a foolish soldier who endangered people on the bus.
No!
They were upset because they knew how much trouble he would get into if he reported to base without his pistol and they wanted to save him big time hassle and possible time in the brig.
A young Air Force soldier was on a bus and when he got off he left his pistol behind.
Passengers were really, really really upset and franticly made the driver go back and find the soldier..
Were they upset because they thought he was a foolish soldier who endangered people on the bus.
No!
They were upset because they knew how much trouble he would get into if he reported to base without his pistol and they wanted to save him big time hassle and possible time in the brig.
I work in the Middle East for 6m out of the year. (not Millitary) If you were shocked by military/police/guard having MG's in Israel... You need to go to Yemen or Oman where every male big enough to hold a weapon has one. Only separator is class, the poor ones will have muskets, ones with a lil money will have the latest and greatest.
Plus they like their edc knives large...lol. you ignore it after a while except the little buggers glass eyed from gat, twitchin his finger on his AUG.
Only thing that chaps my butt is that I see all these MG's that I could buy for pennies, yet same gun in the USA would cost 10's of thousands.
Plus they like their edc knives large...lol. you ignore it after a while except the little buggers glass eyed from gat, twitchin his finger on his AUG.
Only thing that chaps my butt is that I see all these MG's that I could buy for pennies, yet same gun in the USA would cost 10's of thousands.
Batty67
Member
Went to Israel in summer 2006 for the Bat Mitzvah of one of my nieces (who is dual U.S./Israel citizenship, as all of her family)...incredible experience. They really made a beautiful place look a lot of rural california (to me at least) out of a desert.
Yes, serious firepower all over. And if I made aliiyah and moved to Israel, I'd carry 24/7. Big part of the reason if some religious zealot (of whatever religion you want to pick), opens up, they'll get gunned down pretty quickly...or at least get shot back at pronto.
Sort of sad situation, the need to carry, but totally necessary. Amazing place to visit, though I'm not sure I'd want to live there. Might make it back in 2012.
Yes, serious firepower all over. And if I made aliiyah and moved to Israel, I'd carry 24/7. Big part of the reason if some religious zealot (of whatever religion you want to pick), opens up, they'll get gunned down pretty quickly...or at least get shot back at pronto.
Sort of sad situation, the need to carry, but totally necessary. Amazing place to visit, though I'm not sure I'd want to live there. Might make it back in 2012.
PreMod70
Member
Who want's to carry a gun 24/7
This is my first post and without getting too political wish to ask this question, why would anybody wish to live as those in Isreal do by arming themselves to the teeth? I for one am glad that my forefathers fought our enemies and had the wisdom to keep enemies off our shores. Personally to me a firearm is a tool I use and like a hammer I put it down when finished with my work. If I did wish to carry I would become a cop.
This is my first post and without getting too political wish to ask this question, why would anybody wish to live as those in Isreal do by arming themselves to the teeth? I for one am glad that my forefathers fought our enemies and had the wisdom to keep enemies off our shores. Personally to me a firearm is a tool I use and like a hammer I put it down when finished with my work. If I did wish to carry I would become a cop.
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