It happened
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Bama Drifter
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^ Same here. Looks like a G43 w/ grill marks or the Bersa Thunder and LCP had an illegitimate child, IMHO. No disrespect to Big Green, but forgive me for holding my applause.
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justin22885
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ill never own another remington product.. talk about crap.. every company thats been purchased by "freedom group" has been doing nothing but cutting corners and producing crap.. i will boycott every product made by a company owned by freedom group
BSA1
member
It appears from the article they fired 150 rounds through the test gun. Hardly enough rounds to determine it's "stubborn reliability."
Sounds a lot like a fluff article to me.
Sounds a lot like a fluff article to me.
Monac
Member
BTW, I bought the most recent issue of "Handguns" magazine the other day. Early on, there was an ad for Remington ammunition, and in the ad there was postage-stamp sized picture of an R51 (not the old Model 51). That is probably the most hopeful sign R51 owners have gotten from Remington in 6 months or so. 
The RM380 has been discussed here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=784471&highlight=RM380
And here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=786924&highlight=RM380
Did you mean LCP? The LCR is a revolver.
The RM380 is basically a re-branded Rohrbaugh R380 which is the R9 chambered for .380 ACP. The Rohrbaugh R9 was introduced in 2005, and was awarded NRA's Shooting Illustrated: "Handgun of the Year for 2005" and was awarded an NRA Golden Bullseye Award.
The Ruger LCP was introduced in 2008. The Glock - obviously much later. If you'd said it looks like a Seecamp that would be understandable since the Rohrbaugh brothers did draw inspiration from Lueder (Larry) Seecamp's design.
Remington purchased Rohrbaugh Firearms, and is using the Rohrbaugh machinery to manufacture the RM380. They made some changes to the R380 design - like replacing the heel magazine release with a magazine release button on the frame, and they added a slide stop lever. They also replaced some parts that had formerly been machined parts, with MIM parts.
I wouldn't put this in the R51 category just yet.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=784471&highlight=RM380
And here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=786924&highlight=RM380
Did you mean LCP? The LCR is a revolver.
The RM380 is basically a re-branded Rohrbaugh R380 which is the R9 chambered for .380 ACP. The Rohrbaugh R9 was introduced in 2005, and was awarded NRA's Shooting Illustrated: "Handgun of the Year for 2005" and was awarded an NRA Golden Bullseye Award.
The Ruger LCP was introduced in 2008. The Glock - obviously much later. If you'd said it looks like a Seecamp that would be understandable since the Rohrbaugh brothers did draw inspiration from Lueder (Larry) Seecamp's design.
Remington purchased Rohrbaugh Firearms, and is using the Rohrbaugh machinery to manufacture the RM380. They made some changes to the R380 design - like replacing the heel magazine release with a magazine release button on the frame, and they added a slide stop lever. They also replaced some parts that had formerly been machined parts, with MIM parts.
I wouldn't put this in the R51 category just yet.
Bama Drifter
Member
oops...
^Yes. Yes I did; must be spending too much time in the Revolver Threads
Edited per your suggestion!
^Yes. Yes I did; must be spending too much time in the Revolver Threads
Edited per your suggestion!
justin22885
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wouldnt surprise me if some anti-gun billionaire posing as being pro-gun would start buying up gun manufacturers... at any rate, theyre not the only ones cutting corners, many gun manufacturers seem to be, i wouldnt be surprised if the lower production costs are why polymers are being force-fed down everyones through as the latest greatest thing for that reason too.. im almost to the point of just buying a CNC mill, lathe, and start making everything myself
The R51 test guns ran fine for the writers and testers, but what came off the line and was sold to the general public wasn't the same as what what circulated to gun writers for testing. So even if this RM380 racks up a bunch of positive reviews - so what? Remington now has a reputation for producing two different guns - the ones that are sent out for reviewers, which seem to work OK, and the ones that they sell to the public which don't work. On the other hand, there really is not a whole lot to screw up - they have a working design and the equipment that was used to create reliably working guns. I don't like the slide stop or side magazine release button anyway, I wish they would have just produced the R380 the way it was. But oh well...
I know there will be people on the Rohrbaugh Forum who will buy some of these and give honest reviews of them. If Remington hasn't screwed it up I'll probably buy one and carry it as a back up to my R9.
I know there will be people on the Rohrbaugh Forum who will buy some of these and give honest reviews of them. If Remington hasn't screwed it up I'll probably buy one and carry it as a back up to my R9.
justin22885
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i bought a shotgun from remington.. the 870.. thought hey, its a popular shotgun with tons of aftermarket.. but holy hell did they cut corners.. wish i had just saved up and bought a steel framed ithaca 37 instead, or a benelli
SC Shooter
Member
I really hope this Remington venture is successful. After the fiasco with the R51, Remington needs a home run. They are historically a great American company with a long record of technical innovation and a fair amount of business stability. We should be rooting for them.
Tommygunn
Member
Well, I will wait until I get my R 51 back.
This is the first time I've seen a photo of this Remington offering....looks like the Ruger .380. Meh. Not interested; I think I will be keeping my Sig Sauer P 238.
This is the first time I've seen a photo of this Remington offering....looks like the Ruger .380. Meh. Not interested; I think I will be keeping my Sig Sauer P 238.
Armybrat
Member
I bought this Remington R1 1911 over a year ago ($529-$75 cash rebate= $454). Great deal and a very good value - the fit & finish are of good quality, IMO, and a good shooter:
W.E.G.
Member
Great big laser contraption that adds weight, adds complexity, and eats up grip area.
No thank you.
Great big rooster-tail on the magazine floorplate that eats up pocket space without adding capacity.
No thank you.
No thank you.
Great big rooster-tail on the magazine floorplate that eats up pocket space without adding capacity.
No thank you.
CoalTrain49
Member
The way things are going we are going to see a lot of bad guys crawling around feeling awful after all the pocket pistols get into action.
I bought my one and only Remington in 1970. A better pump shotgun was never built. My how times change.
I bought my one and only Remington in 1970. A better pump shotgun was never built. My how times change.
Capybara
Member
I'm with Sam Weller and Justin. Remington is dead to me. My 870, brand new, straight from the factory had multiple major defects. It never could have been test fired because it wouldn't fire. It is an AOW, therefore an NFA item so I couldn't just send it back to Remington. My gunsmith and I took it apart, defects, rough castings, burrs everywhere. Freedom Group guns are junk as far as I am concerned.
cc-hangfire
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I'm still interested, too. I understand there's a tendency to abandon Remington & Freedom Arms; but things change over the long haul both for better &/or for worse.
Example: Check on the history of Harley Davidson. When it was bought up by AMF in 1969 their quality (& reputation) went into the toilet. They didn't get straightened out until they went to a different ownership in 1981. HD is building great motorcycles again today.
I hope the Remington name & brand can survive this period & turn around in the future. Remington Arms has been around since 1816 (Harley is just a "child", being founded in 1903). So I won't say "never again!", but rather "we'll see".
Example: Check on the history of Harley Davidson. When it was bought up by AMF in 1969 their quality (& reputation) went into the toilet. They didn't get straightened out until they went to a different ownership in 1981. HD is building great motorcycles again today.
I hope the Remington name & brand can survive this period & turn around in the future. Remington Arms has been around since 1816 (Harley is just a "child", being founded in 1903). So I won't say "never again!", but rather "we'll see".
barnbwt
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So long as it's not being made by a plant full of workers aware they're about to be shut down & laid off, the success of the gun becomes a possibility.
"MIM parts" --were among the better made portions of the R51, because --surprise-- they were contracted out to an outfit that wasn't about to be shown the door
"Great big laser contraption that adds weight, adds complexity, and eats up grip area.
No thank you.
Great big rooster-tail on the magazine floorplate that eats up pocket space without adding capacity.
No thank you."
Sheesh, at least give Remington credit for having accessories available upon release; when's the last time a gun that wasn't identical to an existing offering able to claim the same? Heck, the R51 had grips, laser sight, night sights, and like three holsters ready to go, had Pineville not dropped a steaming torpedo in the shipping crate, marked "A-OK." That silly slide-release is a much dumber idea (seriously? Your gonna be doing tactical reloads from your 380 pocket piece? Won't you practically drop the gun if you reach back that far with your thumb?
)
"After the fiasco with the R51, Remington needs a home run"
I agree, but this is no home-run no matter how you slice it. It's a belated entry into a mature (i.e. profit-less) market with many competitors, and given Remington's capabilities, will at best be a functional low-end offering (i.e. even lower profit margins) that will do little to enhance the brand name. I mean, look at it; it's about the ugliest finish for a pocket gun I've ever seen, and pocket guns seem to be one of those things folks typically prefer to look somewhat classy. I just don't think Remington knows their market, yet (I think Para does, but that they aren't the ones shot-calling marketing/R&D decisions)
The 'home run' was the R51. By every measure, Remington truly did swing for the fences with that project (or rather, they pointed the bat over the uprights). A highly-secret internal project fast-tracked into full-scale production in the space of six months, to use an update of an operating system not explored for a century, and leveraging their marketshare to convince a number of third-party manufacturers to collaborate on a number of aftermarket accessories that were to be available out of the gate. And all to jump head-first into a market niche they have absolutely no experience with (1911's don't count, since that was Para's experience). I seriously can't think of another handgun with such an ambitious game plan. Certainly not for decades (most of the time, it's a glorious success if they have magazines by the time the first units ship, and have been hamming-up the gun mags for a solid year)
But, some resource-manager in charge of divvying up production screwed up big time, and put a highly-sensitive, conspicuous project with a ton of moving parts and steep learning curve, in the hands of a plant that would literally be shut down once the last crate of the first shipment was delivered, and everything that entails as far as facilities support (tooling), worker morale, and professionalism. Not unlike a bone-headed decision by a Soviet Politburo to have slave-laborers on a shoe-string budget build missile components (no coincidence that they had so many rocket failures, despite having some of the world's best scientists with boundless resources)
TCB
"MIM parts" --were among the better made portions of the R51, because --surprise-- they were contracted out to an outfit that wasn't about to be shown the door
"Great big laser contraption that adds weight, adds complexity, and eats up grip area.
No thank you.
Great big rooster-tail on the magazine floorplate that eats up pocket space without adding capacity.
No thank you."
Sheesh, at least give Remington credit for having accessories available upon release; when's the last time a gun that wasn't identical to an existing offering able to claim the same? Heck, the R51 had grips, laser sight, night sights, and like three holsters ready to go, had Pineville not dropped a steaming torpedo in the shipping crate, marked "A-OK." That silly slide-release is a much dumber idea (seriously? Your gonna be doing tactical reloads from your 380 pocket piece? Won't you practically drop the gun if you reach back that far with your thumb?
)"After the fiasco with the R51, Remington needs a home run"
I agree, but this is no home-run no matter how you slice it. It's a belated entry into a mature (i.e. profit-less) market with many competitors, and given Remington's capabilities, will at best be a functional low-end offering (i.e. even lower profit margins) that will do little to enhance the brand name. I mean, look at it; it's about the ugliest finish for a pocket gun I've ever seen, and pocket guns seem to be one of those things folks typically prefer to look somewhat classy. I just don't think Remington knows their market, yet (I think Para does, but that they aren't the ones shot-calling marketing/R&D decisions)
The 'home run' was the R51. By every measure, Remington truly did swing for the fences with that project (or rather, they pointed the bat over the uprights
). A highly-secret internal project fast-tracked into full-scale production in the space of six months, to use an update of an operating system not explored for a century, and leveraging their marketshare to convince a number of third-party manufacturers to collaborate on a number of aftermarket accessories that were to be available out of the gate. And all to jump head-first into a market niche they have absolutely no experience with (1911's don't count, since that was Para's experience). I seriously can't think of another handgun with such an ambitious game plan. Certainly not for decades (most of the time, it's a glorious success if they have magazines by the time the first units ship, and have been hamming-up the gun mags for a solid year)But, some resource-manager in charge of divvying up production screwed up big time, and put a highly-sensitive, conspicuous project with a ton of moving parts and steep learning curve, in the hands of a plant that would literally be shut down once the last crate of the first shipment was delivered, and everything that entails as far as facilities support (tooling), worker morale, and professionalism. Not unlike a bone-headed decision by a Soviet Politburo to have slave-laborers on a shoe-string budget build missile components (no coincidence that they had so many rocket failures, despite having some of the world's best scientists with boundless resources)
TCB
Yep...lookin' interesting
Over view http://www.gunblast.com/Remington-RM380.htm
Over view http://www.gunblast.com/Remington-RM380.htm
W.E.G.
Member
Remington website says trigger is DAO.
So, doe it TRULY have second-strike capability?
So, doe it TRULY have second-strike capability?
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