It started with a "man with a gun" call

[Froggy]

After responding to a "man with a gun" call at a shopping mall, Phoenix police shoot and kill man in the food court. From the accounts, he was minding his own business when the police confronted him and told him "don't move." He did, allegedly going for his gun. In the ensuing melee, he managed to get off one shot, hitting only himself. The police got off several.

Fascinating to see the various versions of the incident. In some, the police begin shooting because the man draws his gun. In others, the police shoot while the man is still struggling to get the gun out of his holster while wrestling with a police officer. In some, he is walking around the food court with a drawn gun. In others, he is sitting at a table eating with his gun concealed in his waist band when the police approach.

Open carry is legal here in AZ, as is concealed carry with a permit (don't know if the mall in question is posted against it or not), so I always wonder what prompts a "man with a gun" call, or the ensuing response.

In this case, the gun-toter had previously served a two year term for criminal damage and fleeing arrest.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=79365

Police fatally shoot man at mall food court

Associated Press November 21, 2006

PHOENIX — Phoenix police fatally shot a man at a shopping mall Monday evening after he entered the food court area armed with a gun.

Police were called to the Metro Center mall just before 6 p.m. by security officers, who had been alerted to the armed man by a shopper, Detective Stacie Derge said.

Officers approached the man and told him not to move, but he reached for the gun in his waistband, Derge said. One of the officers grabbed the man and tried to control him, but he continued to struggle and pulled the gun from his waistband.

That’s when other officers opened fire, hitting the man several times in the torso, Derge said. The unidentified man died shortly after arrival at a Phoenix hospital.

Derge said the food court area was full of diners but that no one else was injured.

Other versions:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1121b9filler1121.html

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20061121_metrocenter-shooting.ef12a47.html

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1125wvbriefs1125.html

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=phoenix+shot+food+gun

 

[30 cal slob]

what is it with all these mealtime shootings?

i bore witness to one whilst rummaging for dinner one summer evening, when i saw some poor guy get his brains blown out on the sidewalk. (this shooting was later ripped from the headlines and played out on Law & Order).

i promptly threw up and skipped dinner that evening.

 

[The-Fly]

Sounds like the idiot didn't listen to the cops telling him to NOT move, and got splattered for it. Also sounds like he was a felon in possession of a firearm and not a lawful ccw'er.

 

[carterbeauford]

Open carry is legal here in AZ

As it is in VA, that doesn't stop people from making the same call.

If law enforcement is responding to someone open carrying, "don't move" is not a good way to start things off. Granted the man could have followed instructions and lived, but it sounds initially like the 911 operator and responding officers did not know how to handle the call.

 

[GRIZ22]

The Fly, you got it right.

 

[redneckdan]

I was on the recieving end of one of these calls once. I had stopped at napa and parked on main street. I went back to the truck and replaced the distributor cap and rotor. While I was standing on the bump, working on the engine. A local cop pulls up and asks "do you have a CPL"? Startled, I slipped off the bumper and cracked my chin on the front bulkhead. Seems a soccer mom (yes, even up here in da UP dair are one or two around) had made a MWG call when she saw my 1911 sticking out cause my carhart rode up while working on the truck. After checking my permit the officer drove me to the doctors office and the department even footed the bill for stitches, wasn't that nice of them?

 

[kd7nqb]

1. Redneckdan awsome story did not knew departments were still that good

2. I agree the cops may have started with a negative tone but the guy seriously should NOT have reached for his gun. Just another reason I support the right of OC without being a practicer of it.

 

[Wes Janson]

After checking my permit the officer drove me to the doctors office and the department even footed the bill for stitches, wasn't that nice of them?

Wow! Talk about goodwill!

 

[berettaman]

What does "Don't Move" sound like to a deaf person?
(just asking)

 

[Hoppy590]

What does "Don't Move" sound like to a deaf person?
(just asking)

sadly. thats happened a number of times.

 

[C-grunt]

Metro Center mall is posted. It sucks because thats the mall I would want to carry in, if I ever went there. Its not in the best areas of Phx.

 

[cane]

What does don't move sound like to a deaf person?, good question. Long ago and far away I was dispatched to a "suspicious vehicle" call. I approached the vehicle from the rear, had my blue lights and take downs on. The driver exited the vehicle and approached me, waving something in his hand. Refused to stop when I told him to. Fortunately, with the headlights and take downs on, I could see that he had a piece of paper in his hand. You guessed it, it was a printed form telling the world in general the bearer was deaf. I often wonder what would have happened if the scene hadn't been so well lit.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Re: deaf folks.

It would seem that we'd be well served with some sort of universal "I'm deaf" gesture, in the same way that there is a universal "I'm choking to death, please apply heimlich" gesture.

 

[moewadle]

In a book by Studs Terkel

entitled WORKING the author writes a few pages about each of many people who he interviewed about their respective jobs. Very, very good nonfiction book. He wrote about laborers, a yacht broker, all walks of life. To get to the point...he also interviewed a man who had been or still was a police officer in New York City, perhaps The Bronx....in a rough area of town I believe. So, he responds to a call in a multistory apartment house. I forget the nature of the call but he gets to a landing and there is a man in a corner with his back to the cop and a woman appearing to be under this guy's control. The man's hands are hidden and the LEO draws his revolver and tells the guy to show his hands and turn around or something to that effect. The man keeps squirming with his hands hidden and the cop is warning him and just on the verge of blowing him away when the guy finally turns and it then becomes obvious that the man was trying to close his clothing because he and the woman had been having sexual intercourse and the man wanted to cover up. He was unarmed. This cop told the author that he never forgot that ironic incident as he almost shot the guy.

Now, I may have a bit of this wrong but if you read the book by Studs Terkel you will find that part...I think pretty late in the book.

 

[redneckdan]

1. Redneckdan awsome story did not knew departments were still that good

This was a small town force, maybe 4 officers if that. All pretty decent guys, I do beleive that the officer n question was the same officer who signed my registration card for said 1911.

 

[denfoote]

The mall in question, Metrocenter is posted. However, that alone did not justify the shooting.

What did was when he went for the gun in a threatening manner. Phoenix PD does not mess around with this!! Especally at Metrocenter, which is a known gang handout!!

After responding to a "man with a gun" call at a shopping mall, Phoenix police shoot and kill man in the food court. From the accounts, he was minding his own business when the police confronted him and told him "don't move." He did, allegedly going for his gun. In the ensuing melee, he managed to get off one shot, hitting only himself. The police got off several.

I have been disarmed by the police in conjunction with a "man with a gun" call before and it is no big deal. This was in Scottsdale AZ, a known snowbird hangout, and some guy from back east saw my open carried handgun when I crossed in front of his car. He called it in, not knowing it was legal!!!

I simply let the officer do the deed. As soon as he did his duty, I recieved my weapon back and all was good!!

 

[rhubarb]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20061121_metrocenter-shooting.ef12a47.html

Noting that the food court was packed, Derge says the officers took "very quick and decisive actions to prevent what could have been a very violent situation."

Could have been a violent situation?

Could be that this was a sure-nuff bad guy. I, like many here, first thought of this incident in the context of a licensed concealed carrier and the possibility of the police responding to me in the same way.

The whole reason that I carry on a daily basis everywhere I go is that there are armed violent criminals among us. I am armed against them.

 

[Hypnogator]

What does "Don't Move" sound like to a deaf person?

Nothing like, "Draw Your Gun!" I'd hazard a guess.

 

[jcoiii]

One of the most beneficial things covered this year in my POST training was a 2 hour session with the interpreters that are requested by deaf persons. These interpreters, among other things, will responds to a traffic stop where a deaf person requests them.

The ladies teaching the class showed us how deaf persons can react during a traffic stop. What is normal communication to them can be seen as threatening if you don't know what it is. For example, if a deaf person needs to turn away to do something, grab ID for example, they will stick a fist out the window in your face. This is their way of saying "hold on a second." But if I did not know that, I would see a person turning away to dig in a purse/wallet/glove box and sticking a fist in my face.

Their solution was the best, IMO. Teach officers common signs that might be misinterpreted AND teach deaf persons how some of their normal movements or actions could be interpreted wrongly by police. Good system all around.