It's been done before: Saiga .223 vs. Mini-14

[Hammerhead6814]

This thread has happened before. In fact it's happened a few times before . But some questions keep coming back. It doesn't help that in previous threads most of the posts were either "Saiga" or "Mini-14", and no explanation why . So here we go, with some thought out questions that will hopefully generate some better, clearer answers.

1. Out of the Box, which holds better accuracy? The Saiga or the Mini-14?

2. Mini-14's have years and years of data on how to accurize them. With the accu-strut, you can shave a 3" group at 100 yards with the Mini to a 1.5" group. What, if there are any at all, ways can a Saiga .223 be accurized?

3. Barrel heat with a Mini-14, especially the pre-2005 series, is accepted as one the the reasons for poor accuracy in a Mini-14. Have the newer rifles finally addressed this issue or will a noticeable decrease in accuracy become apart after twenty rounds?

4. Barrel heat on a Saiga. When and to what effect does it have on accuracy twenty rounds into shooting?

5. Mounting a scope. The Mini-14 is usually the winner here as rings are already provided. But these new "Beryl" style mounts apparently solve AK scope-mounting issues. Can the Saiga hold zero just as well as the Mini? Is it possible?

6. Overall cost. The Mini-14 comes with everything you need to mount a scope. The Saiga requires some work. But are magazines noticeably cheaper for a Saiga than the Mini-14? Are they more available or are they about the same?

7. If something breaks, which is more easily repaired? I understand that Ruger requires you to send them the rifle, where as you can buy replacement parts for the Saiga?

I hope this post can generate some better answers than what has been given.

 

[Girodin]

1. Out of the Box, which holds better accuracy? The Saiga or the Mini-14?

It will likely depend on individual rifles and loads of course but if I had to place a wager on two randomly selected examples of each I would bet on the saiga based on what I have seen from multiple exemplars of each.

2. Mini-14's have years and years of data on how to accurize them. With the accu-strut, you can shave a 3" group at 100 yards with the Mini to a 1.5" group. What, if there are any at all, ways can a Saiga .223 be accurized?

Two things I have seen done to various saigas that has been observed to enhance accuracy are to re-crown them, and I have seen a fabricated free float hand guard. Another thing that helps a lot in shooting groups is the pistol grip conversion. A G2 trigger is soooo much better than stock. It is also very easy to polish a G2 up for even more improvement.

4. Barrel heat on a Saiga. When and to what effect does it have on accuracy twenty rounds into shooting?

I wont address what effects 20 rounds will have (I haven't shot it for groups after twenty rounds down the pipe). I will say that the .223 saiga has a fairly heavy barrel. It is essentially a 7.62x39 diameter barrel with a .223 bore. It is a fairly thick barrel and that helps it not heat up quite as fast.

5. Mounting a scope. The Mini-14 is usually the winner here as rings are already provided. But these new "Beryl" style mounts apparently solve AK scope-mounting issues. Can the Saiga hold zero just as well as the Mini? Is it possible?

The Beryl rails seem to work very very well. They also provide the advantage of offering a rear peep that is a vast improvement over the stock open sights. They run about $150 and all reports I have seen say they hold zero very well. I plan to use this setup on my .308.

6. Overall cost. The Mini-14 comes with everything you need to mount a scope. The Saiga requires some work. But are magazines noticeably cheaper for a Saiga than the Mini-14? Are they more available or are they about the same?

This is where the saiga blows the mini away, even with the recently increased prices on the saiga.

Saigas seem to run about $350 now.

G2 FCG $28
Retainer plate $10
PG nut $8
Pistol grip $15-20
Stock $30
Bullet guide $30 (can be fabed up for much less
Beryl rail 150-300 (depends on manufacture)

These prices are aprox and of the top of my head so round up and call the conversion $150 (note one could do it for less or much more) plus $150 for the rail and you are at a rifle that runs $650.

Traditionally 20 round mini mags, reliable ones, have been expense and harder to come by. A quick google search showed factory mags at nearly $40 a piece. the cheaper pro mags are junk. I am not familiar enough with some of the other less expensive ones to comment on them. Thirty round mags that will work with the saiga used to be fairly inexpensive. More recently I have seen them for about $20 a piece. Another viable option is a MSA AR-15 mag adapter. If one already has a number of AR mag this adapter can make sense. It runs about $160 so if one only wants to have a limited number of mags it may not make sense. If one has other weapons that use AR mags it makes a lot of sense.

Unless there has been an advent in mini mags that I am unaware of 30 round mags for the saiga are cheaper and easier to find than mags for the mini that hold more than 10 rounds.

7. If something breaks, which is more easily repaired? I understand that Ruger requires you to send them the rifle, where as you can buy replacement parts for the Saiga?

Ruger in my experience has great customer service. RRA seems to have good service from what I have seen but I have never had to use it to find out for myself. Spare parts are easier to have on hand for the saiga. The saiga in addition to being dead nuts reliable is simple, there is not much to go wrong and they are easy to work on.

The mini costs $650-700. To me I would rather spend a little more and have an entry level AR. I think the saiga is a superior rifle to the mini. If one factors in the cost of ten mags ( the number I like to have for any rifle) it starts to pull ahead in the price category.

If accuracy was my top concern I wouldn't be after either. First shot accuracy on either is probably okay. From what I have seen saigas on average group better.

When I got my saiga it cost $250 it made it a no brainer over a mini. Even if one is paying $350 I like the saiga. If cost is a factor the cost of dressing up the saiga can be spread out.

 

[RatDrall]

3. Barrel heat with a Mini-14, especially the pre-2005 series, is accepted as one the the reasons for poor accuracy in a Mini-14. Have the newer rifles finally addressed this issue or will a noticeable decrease in accuracy become apart after twenty rounds?

The new Mini-14s have different barrels that hold their accuracy better. I had an old Mini-14 that would shoot 1.5-2 MOA, then heat up and barely keep the rounds on a paper plate at 100 yards. The new mini-14s stay 2 MOA or so, even after heating up.

7. If something breaks, which is more easily repaired? I understand that Ruger requires you to send them the rifle, where as you can buy replacement parts for the Saiga?

Mini-14s and AK47s don't break.

Either gun works for a short range self defense or pest control rifle. The main differences that I see are:

1. One looks evil, the other can appear more politically correct if needed
2. One is made in Russia, the other by Americans. Who would you rather support, given that both weapons are equal in just about every way?

 

[nathan]

I see them par with its other if shot open sights. They are designed that way. If I want to get real accuracy , a boltaction rifle is the way to go.