I've never seen this before...

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SC_Dave

SC_Dave

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Have you? The case has a rim inside of it. Head Stamp IMT.
VYANYAY.png
 
Yeah that is a positive stop for the bullet so it cannot be driven deeper into the case by the loading/ramming force. Some suspect it could raise pressure by itself because it's a smaller volume for your normal powder charge. I drop them in a special box to be loaded all at once with a different bullet/load.
 
I'v seen and reloaded plenty with a thin rim like the one you show in your pic. I can't tell any difference in performance, but I'm not at max load and I'm not bullseye type shooting. There are some from Maxxtech though that have a very thick shelf and I just toss those. I think they would greatly change the inside volume and I don't want to mess with figuring that out.
 
It's the dreaded 'shelf' style case. I've got some with the Freedom Munitions FM headstamp like that. I just toss 'em. I did not realize IMT were that way.
 
SC_Dave said:
I searched before I posted and came up empty. After I posted I found this.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/imt-brass-headstamp-confusion-misinformation.814256/
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Interesting, IMT and FM brass are apparently one and the same. Another thing to consider besides the shelf is the overall quality. My FM headstamp brass has flash holes that are irregular and inconsistent to a much greater degree than the second worst headstamp, Winchester. I reject 10-20% of the Winchester brass I recover from the range for bad flash holes; the FM stuff is so shoddy I would reject 100% of it for the flash holes even if it didn't have the shelf. Junk no matter how you slice it, in my experience.
 
wally said:
Bad flash holes? As long as the de-capper fits and the and the case primes I don't worry about it.
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I have a working population of about 3,000 nice 9mm cases and bring a gallon freezer bag full home from the range each week. The junk gets tossed.
 
ray15 said:
Interesting, IMT and FM brass are apparently one and the same. Another thing to consider besides the shelf is the overall quality. My FM headstamp brass has flash holes that are irregular and inconsistent to a much greater degree than the second worst headstamp, Winchester. I reject 10-20% of the Winchester brass I recover from the range for bad flash holes; the FM stuff is so shoddy I would reject 100% of it for the flash holes even if it didn't have the shelf. Junk no matter how you slice it, in my experience.
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The Winchester worked the first time, so what makes you think they wouldn't work again?

Fred
 
If you are pushing max loads then you have to worry about all kinds of component changes, OTOH if you are like me loading no more powerful than necessary to assure reliable function the stepped cases make no significant difference shooting steel plates at 10-25 yards. The time wasted culling them and worrying about it kills the enjoyment of the reloading hobby. I load 147gr hard cast or polymer coated, 3.7gr Unique, any primer, any case, and shoot 1200-1500 per month depending on the weather.


None of this applies if you are playing with near max loads -- I shoot near minimum loads with the charged bumped up only as necessary if new gun is added to the mix -- I won't tolerate "gun specific" loads, YMMV. Last time I bumped up a load was when I got my Glock 17L. When you are shooting 300+ rounds an outing and "par time" is 6 plates in 3 seconds or less reduced recoil is a feature, not a bug!
 
I don't think I could tell if a flash hole was bad unless it was REALLY bad. Honestly, I have never thought to look.
 
egd said:
Honestly, I have never thought to look.
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I have, and there are distinct differences. Vista conglomerate and R-P cases have nice regular flash holes, where Winchester often has irregular and oversize holes that aren't even parallel to the bore axis. It appears the punch that creates the hole can bounce, striking the case twice with the second hit coming after the case has started to be ejected. I have a working population of about 800 Winchester cases that have clean flash holes, and those are the ones I use, no reason to mess with lesser ones. They'll go to the recycler with the FM stuff, once the scrap bucket gets full.
 
I see others that take scrap brass to a recycler. How much do they pay? Do you have to have a large amount to make it worthwhile, kinda like alum. cans?
 
ray15 said:
They will go bang, no doubt. Feel free to apply whatever standards you wish to your brass.

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You've never manufactured anything, have you?

I've been doing this for 54 years, and over 800,000 rounds loaded, in 33 different calibers. Everybody makes mistakes, even me. I had my first squib load at about the 700,000 round mark, at the largest match in my currently chosen sport. Too make a blanket statement that a manufacturer is junk demonstrates a lack of knowledge about what it takes to manufacture billions of anything, let alone ammunition. Others may not have the same experience with a product as you, or may not apply the same standards, or even any experience at all in this sport. For someone to make a proclamation that a company that large makes junk is irresponsible, at the least, since it may influence someone just starting out. After all, they "read it on the internet"....

I carried a gun on the job for 26 years in a pretty good sized department of 600 sworn officers, and we used nothing but Winchester ammunition, because it was the best on the market at the time. I still carry everyday now that I'm retired, and it's Winchester ammunition in my sidearms. If I didn't have faith in it, I wouldn't carry it.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
egd said:
I see others that take scrap brass to a recycler. How much do they pay? Do you have to have a large amount to make it worthwhile, kinda like alum. cans?
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I just took my scrap brass to the recyclers a week ago and got $776.00 for it, @ $1.80 a pound. I recycle everything, even steel and aluminum cases and primers. Everything has value and I hate to see anything wasted.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
For those that reload mixed headstamp 9x19 brass, You will not be a happy reloader some time soon.
 
GFI / Fiocchi are terrible about having off center flash holes.

I have loaded the 9mm cases with the little ridge and the step and they were ok until I had one separate at the ridge.
Mild load number of loads on the case unknown. (load felt fine as well) Since I have plenty of 9mm brass I just toss them in the recycle can.
Wouldn't want on to fail in the middle of a stage.

Some nice off center GFL flash holes......
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/gfl-223-brass-bent-decap-pin.748343/
:eek:
 
ReloaderFred said:
You've never manufactured anything, have you?
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You haven't the faintest idea. I've manufactured a number of products professionally in large numbers, not as a hobby. Like I said, feel free to apply whatever standards to your brass you see fit.
 
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jmorris said:
Been around for awhile now. Ammoload is another headstamp.

My powder check die picks them out due to the reduced volume.

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I had a powder check die in the rotation for some time. But I removed it when I separated my seat and crimp step. I visually check each charge with ease in the process but I would like it if I could get that PC die back in mix. I know my eyes can't see subtle differences but I load in the middle of the chart so a slight variance is not a big deal. It's only for practice not precision. I hesitate to toy with the the separate seat / crimp operation as it is now because it's working so well for me. That said I'd still like to put that PC die back to work.
 
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I understand I prefer to seat then crimp as well but I understand the tool heads I use are no longer available that allow me to seat, then crimp and retain a powder check die, with a bullet feeder.
 
Dudedog said:
GFI / Fiocchi are terrible about having off center flash holes.
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I purchased 3,000 LC NATIONAL MATCH 30/06 pull down cases from PAT'S Reloading in Ohio, every flash hole was off center, If I thought there was a problem I could have indexed the cases in the chamber. I had no complaint, I picked the cases up from Pat at his shop.

F. Guffey
 
ray15 said:
You haven't the faintest idea. I've manufactured a number of products professionally in large numbers, not as a hobby. Like I said, feel free to apply whatever standards to your brass you see fit.
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Well, bless your heart............ I guess the products you manufactured never came out wrong, out of spec, etc. Manufacturers are human, and humans make mistakes...... Mistakes sometimes get to the end user, but that's more a problem with the QC dept., isn't it? Every production line has an occasional problem, since none of us are perfect.
 
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