James River Armory: No Steel cased ammo

Arcticfox

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The JRA Home page says no steel cased ammo is to be used in their rifles, but doesn't state why. Researching here, it seems the concern is the premature wear of internal parts caused by the steel (e.g. extractors). JRA makes their own receivers. Are their receivers not up to handling a steel case? Is the rifle going to explode? Or are they just trying to avoid warranty concerns?

Arcticfox
 
Smart move imo on their part. Steel on steel and close tolerances without lubrication is a wear issue. That being said there are firearms such as AKs built to run it. I have never used steel cased ammo and never will...ymmv
 
To date the only steel case I've ever run was herter's 62 gr hp, about 150 rounds in 3 different rifles, precise enough, violent expansion, zero functionality issues, but definitely far from a steady diet of any kind, as has been stated, steel and steel without lube in a tight space? Not my cup of tea.
 
Almost all manufacturers have a similar no-no statement about reloaded ammo use in their guns. The website showed they are almost all older, restored guns.

I think @edwardware has it nailed regarding inconsistent steel cased ammo quality causing additional reliability complaints.

Stay safe.
 
LuckyGunner Labs shot four brands of ammo 10,000 each in its own AR.
Steel cases were less reliable, steel bullet jackets wore out the barrels in about 6000.
They didn't have a high percentage of malfs and the steel cased ammo was enough cheaper to save the cost of a new barrel. So for plinking, the cheap stuff was more economical in the very long run.
 
I have no doubt that a lot of steel case ammunition on the market is surplus ammunition. I fired a lot of Chinese steel case in 7.62 X 54R before I learned about gunpowder deterioration. Gunpowder deteriorates, and as it gets old, you will encounter burn rate instability. That is, your rifle blows up!

See the Nov 2023 Guns Magazine, article; Know thy Gun, Know thy Gunshop. In it is a brief account of a Garand blown up with reloads made with old gunpowder. "The root cause of the accident was determined to be unstable powder, most likely due to age and improper storage"

It is reasonable to assume that old surplus ammunition was purged from military stocks because it had become unsafe to issue, or it was unsafe to store. First World Militaries have ammunition technicians who inspect, sample, test, the stability of old ammunition stocks. I think it reasonable second World militaries do the same, third world militaries do nothing and let their ammunition depots explode. This also happens in the USA. Workers at Clark Guns told me they frequently heard kabooms from Camp Minden Louisana. I shot next to a man who lived in Natchitoches Louisania, and he heard kabooms, take a look how far Natchitoces is from Minden Lousiana.

New Information: Bunker blast at Camp Minden

By USAHM-News on October 19, 2012


6 arrested in Camp Minden explosives investigation


Execs accused of improperly storing explosives at Camp Minden due in court


Camp Minden: From blast to possible burn


New Information: Bunker blast at Camp Minden

By USAHM-News on October 19, 2012

https://usahitman.com/nibbacm/

The following is statement from the Louisiana National Guard concerning the explosion at Camp Minden earlier this week. On Monday night the Camp Minden post security heard a loud sound which could have been a possible explosion. Subsequently, the post security physically surveyed the camp in accordance with established protocols and conferred with contractor tenants who stated that they were not able to confirm the origination of the sound.

Upon daylight on Tuesday morning, a Camp Minden tenant organization, Explo Inc., discovered that one of their storage areas had exploded and reported the incident to the Louisiana National Guard. Following this report, the Louisiana National Guard notified local authorities and the Louisiana State Police of the explosion in accordance with standard protocol
.

A gun manufacturer builds rifles according to the standards of the day, but it is unreasonable to expect that any firearm will safely chamber and fire every round, made by any manufacturer, of any age. Especially when there is a lot of old deteriorated rounds still in storage.
 
I don’t see a connection between steel cased 5.56 econoball and old rotten powder. If an Iron Curtain caliber, maybe.

The connection, in my opinion, is that all steel case ammo is cheap, bottom of the barrel stuff.

If I had a com-bloc rifle (I don’t) or similarly cheap firearm and just wanted to make some noise then sure, why not.

On the other hand, JRA rifles cost a pretty penny. No way would I be feeding it garbage ammo.
 
LuckyGunner Labs shot four brands of ammo 10,000 each in its own AR.
Steel cases were less reliable, steel bullet jackets wore out the barrels in about 6000.
They didn't have a high percentage of malfs and the steel cased ammo was enough cheaper to save the cost of a new barrel. So for plinking, the cheap stuff was more economical in the very long run.
The Luck Gunner test is generally a good test, it provides a ton of useful data provided you understand its limitations, and what they actually tested. It does not really test “steel vs brass cases”, nor does it test “copper jacketed vs steel jacketed bullets”. It tests two, maybe three types of Russian produced ammunition to one brand on American produced ammunition. It does not totally isolate all the variables, but when used in conjunction with other known facts some good conclusions can be drawn.

As stated at the beginning, there are two mechanisms of barrel wear, one related to the propellant, the high pressure, high temperature gas, and one related to the projectile, rubbing of the bullet on the bore. Further, there are two manifestations of barrel wear, throat wear and muzzle wear.

The gas temperature of burning propellant is higher than the melting point of the steel the barrel is made from, but only acts for a short time and is highest in the throat of the barrel. This is what eventually erodes the throat. The hotter the propellant, the faster the throat will erode.

The bullet sliding down the barrel causes friction and rubbing wear, the faster the bullet is moving, the more the wear, since the bullet is moving the fastest at the muzzle, that is where rubbing wear will be seen. Also, rubbing causes things to heat up, and at the muzzle the rubbing will have heated the bullet to its hottest. Maximum thermal expansion will also coincide with maximum temperature. Granted, this expansion is in to order of fractions of microinches, but it is there. Steel jacketed bullets will wear muzzles faster than copper jacketed bullets.

There was a test done in the early 1970s that took a known hot propellant, and known cool propellant, steel jacketed bullets and copper jacketed bullets and put them together in all possible combinations:

Hot propellant – steel jacketed bullets
Cool propellant – steel jacketed bullets
Hot Propellant – copper jacketed bullets
Cool propellant – copper jacketed bullets

The hot propellant-steel jacket combination resulted in barrels lasting approximated 8000 rounds, and primarily worn due to muzzle wear and key-holing. The cool propellant–copper jacket combination resulted in barrels lasting 15,000 rounds, with throat erosion being the cause for barrel rejection due to velocity loss.

These two results mirror what we see in the Lucky Gunner test, and that is one thing we can take away from the Lucky Gunner test. Barrel life is a factor of bullet jacket material and propellant choice.

RELIABILITY:

It is a myth that steel cases, in general, cause more malfunctions than brass cases. The Lucky Gunner test only tested two or three steel case manufacturers. At least three times in the last 75 years the US Army has made and tested steel cases, and every time they have come to the conclusion that equal reliability can be had with steel cases, provided the cases are made correctly. And what did all imported steel cased ammunition have in common? It was cheap. So just how much effort do you think was made to ensure all the cases were properly heat treated? (In some military applications steel is the exclusive case material, even in the West.)
 
Probably the reason why they don't want steel cased ammo fired through gun they have the carry the warranty on is some of the steel cased ammo has what is called BiMetal projectiles. That's a steel jacketed lead body projectile that causes extra wear on the bore of the barrel or it could be that some of the older steel cased ammo has corrosive powder or primers that would cause problems if not cleaned right.
 
I don’t see a connection between steel cased 5.56 econoball and old rotten powder. If an Iron Curtain caliber, maybe.

Does not have to be old to be rotten:

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When ammunition is described as cheap, cheap, cheap, that sure does not fill me with a lot of confidence that the solvents used in the gunpowder were the more expensive stuff that took longer to deteriorate the nitrocellulose.

However old is more likely to create rotten gunpowder, and rotten brains.
 
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I find comfort in statements where the poster proclaims that steel cased ammo is crappy and they will never run it. It leaves more for me.

I'm my experience, I've found steel cased ball ammo to be about on par with its brass cased equivalent, assuming a relatively recent date of manufacture. If your rifle won't run it, it's likely the rifle and not the ammo.

The bar on steel cased ammo is BS to me. You can blow up a firearm just as easily with brass cased ammo.
 
JRA makes pretty guns for BBQs and hanging on the wall. They have known issues when is comes to actual usage. A lot of owners report poor reliability and downright awful customer service. If you got lucky enough to have a reliable JRA offering, I'd recommend sticking with only the most expensive brass you could find to keep round count to a minimum.
 
Lawyers talking. That, and they don't trust you to know the good steel case from the bad. But perhaps most people don't. I ignore these "cautions" same as I ignore cautions not to use your own reloaded ammo. It's legal speak.
 
As long as it's cheap, I'll run steel through everything that eats it. So far, that's everything I've fed it to, except one of my Grendels.
 
Communist guns=Communist ammo.

I shot lots of steel case in my Mosin Nagant and AK47 without any problems.

Most AR jams that I saw while working as an RSO where related to steel case ammo. I think that the tighter tolerances of the AR platform can have issues cycling steel case.

When Ammo dried up in 2020. The PSA store near the range was finding steel case to sell with their guns 😡
We became experts in removing cases .....
 
If economy is the only benefit, after I’ve reloaded brass cases 5-10 times how much have I really saved buying one-time use steel cased range fodder?
I will say that Tula functioned well in the AK and Mosin and was cheaper than reloading the ammo would have been.
The steel case in 9mm and 556 that I found was certainly not enough cheaper than range ammo like, American Eagle or Blazer Brass!!!
 
The military were the first to use steel ammo and it has trickled down to the civilian world.

Regarding cost, brass generally costs more than steel upfront due to its complex manufacturing process. So, the military went to steel ammo for cost savings.

However, in terms of long-term costs for the hand loader, brass may be the more economical choice since it tends to last longer than steel before needing replacement or repairs. Since brass can resist wear-and-tear better than steel, it may save you money in the long run if you factor in maintenance and repair costs over time. This is the reason hand loaders like brass and shun steel cases especially in your personal guns.

Although steel is much stronger than brass, making it is the go-to choose when strength is a must. The military does not reload so for them steel cases are a throwaway item. Steel is your best bet if you need something that can withstand extreme temperatures or wear and tear over time. This is another reason the military started using steel ammo. There are draw backs, of steel compared to brass. Brass has slightly more give than steel, making it ideal for applications where flexibility is essential. It’s also much less likely to corrode or rust over time because of its chemical composition.
 
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