Diamondback6
Member
Problem, there's nothing left to reload of a mortar shell or RPG round after use...
Jihadi ammo quality issues
- Thread starter wally
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By "reload" I meant make from scratch propellants and explosives and use them in the warheads and ammunition. Reserve captured enemy rounds for IEDs.
Guncotton/nitrocellulose is not too hard for anyone with basic chemicals available to produce. Many high explosives can likewise be produced from common substances. While the precision necessary to maximize performance like commercialy manufactered stuff would be lacking, slightly less performance with a decent safety margin could produce reliable loads that operated at lower pressures.
So using leftover rounds or depending on others to supply them is just foolishness, especialy when there is great incentive to sabotage them. Of course it is the easier route.
I did not mean "reload" in the sense of reload a once used round, merely that one would benefit from reloading practices in guerrilla war, especialy since supplies are restriced and unreliable.
Guncotton/nitrocellulose is not too hard for anyone with basic chemicals available to produce. Many high explosives can likewise be produced from common substances. While the precision necessary to maximize performance like commercialy manufactered stuff would be lacking, slightly less performance with a decent safety margin could produce reliable loads that operated at lower pressures.
So using leftover rounds or depending on others to supply them is just foolishness, especialy when there is great incentive to sabotage them. Of course it is the easier route.
I did not mean "reload" in the sense of reload a once used round, merely that one would benefit from reloading practices in guerrilla war, especialy since supplies are restriced and unreliable.
lance22
Member
That's gotta hurt.
Rugerman99
Member
If you watch closely it appears that the explosion takes place about 3 feet to the guys right. (Incoming fire perhaps?)
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Funny, y'all both say to look closely and then come up with different locations for the explosion and both ask if it is maybe opposition fire.
I don't think the explosion was from behind the mortarman and I can't see enough to substantiate that it occurred to his right.
ConfuseUs
Member
Making high explosives is extremely hazardous and most amateurs in the field tend to find out the sky's the limit for success.
1. The main fireball begins just slightly to the right of the frame, not coincidentally just at the end of the barrel of the mortar. Though clearly the blast was significant enough to completely destroy the mortar launch tube and the operator, I'm not surprised that a large portion of the explosive force initially went in the path of least resistance: the open mouth of the tube. After that one frame (from approx 43 seconds in), it is clear that the open end of the mortar tube was not sufficient in venting the explosive force, thus the cylinder's walls failed and the operator went "splat" against the rearward wall. Note that you can see the operator's head tilted backwards at a very uncomfortable angle just as the explosion begins, if you go though the video frame by frame.
For example, An open-ended PVC capsule filled with gasoline and detonated with a blackpowder charge will produce a similarly shaped (though much larger and accompanied by longer flames) explosion, while a completely closed cylinder will not. Both will completely fragment the vessel (you wouldn't want to stand near either one) though the size and shape of the fireball changes as a function of the geometry of the container (Some day, I hope to have a job working special effects in movies. If anyone on THR happens to be a filmmaker or work for a SFX company, please send me a pm
)2. The timing is too perfect to be coincidental incoming fire. Without further evidence to substantiate an alternate version of the series of events, Occam's Razor wins again.
--edit--
Slowed down version here:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=971_1187516640
I believe that his head makes a stupendous movement backwards between frames on seconds 43 and 44.
Also note the presence of a large, reddish stain spattered across the rearward wall on the frames during second 53. Perhaps the remnants of the operator's center of mass, which -due to it's positioning in relation to the mortar tube- most likely accepted the greatest amount of force from the exploding ordnance? Oh my...
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Poor Ammo Handling?
I am not an expert on the design of mortar rounds, but I do know they often do or at least used to use impact fuses. If the fuse is armed by the initial firing charge, then detonated by the impact fuse after a short delay, there is room for trouble.
My guess is that the round was dropped somewhere in handling. The fuse was armed and the safety delay was long used up. The fuse then saw the firing charge as the impact and detonated the round.
I am not an expert on the design of mortar rounds, but I do know they often do or at least used to use impact fuses. If the fuse is armed by the initial firing charge, then detonated by the impact fuse after a short delay, there is room for trouble.
My guess is that the round was dropped somewhere in handling. The fuse was armed and the safety delay was long used up. The fuse then saw the firing charge as the impact and detonated the round.
Rugerman99
Member
Neospud-
I stand corrected thank you for that explanation.
I stand corrected thank you for that explanation.
Well here is a kid in Brazil (where legal long guns basicly have to be in a pistol caliber or below) that successfuly made large quantities for his cannon:
http://www.powerlabs.org/cannons.htm
He fails to properly form variations to increase performance but he was just a kid.
An easy additional step to guncotton to form cordite would make small arms propellants quite easy to produce in small batches.
Here is almost a 100 year old text on both by our favorite british subjects that is much clearer to the lay person than many modern texts which would attempt to obscure the steps:
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Guncotton
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Cordite
So it is quite possible for even men that live in caves to make thier own powders.
In fact in Homer Hickman's autobiographical book "Rocket Boys", later turned into the movie "October Sky" they make something very similar as children using solvent to disolve it and form solid rocket engines for thier models.
He went on to become a NASA scientist.
Of course today he would probably have been branded a potential terrorist, expelled from school, had the bomb squad called to his home, and raided with a SWAT team, and then been forever added to the Homeland Security watch list. Back then he was just a country boy playing with something that interested him, like many others like him had for centuries in free America.
So while it is dangerous, involving exothermic reactions that must be controlled, anyone interested could make it safely.
Black powder is even simplier and one can make the main ingredient in it with thier own feces and urine if necessary, which was even mandated (using animal matter) by the some governments centuries ago.
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Saltpetre
Production of which is still important in the manufacter of nitric acid, which is used for most higher explosives, including modern smokeless powder as discussed above.
Commercial manufacture all uses more effecient modern processes now, but for every chemical there is multiple sources and multiple variations in the manufacturing process.
I personaly think such knowledge is important for all Americans because the RKBA arms is only a right if every citizen has the knowledge of how to retain that right and be self sufficent in providing for anything the government may ban or restrict at a later date. That includes the knowldege of firearms, how they operate and how simple thier functionality, as well as the propellants they operate on. They are not some highly complex item, and the average person could mass produce homemade firearms from scratch, propellant included, as easily as they could remodel thier own home, work on thier own vehicles, or any of the numerous do it yourself projects Americans commonly do.
Currently it is just more effective and legal to purchase them from a store, made by people that specialize in that as a livelihood, and who go through all the legal steps necessary per the ATF for you.
Black Adder LXX
Member
You know, on the whole '72 virgin' thing... the Koran is mis-translated and the passage actually reads "a 72-year-old virgin", not "72 virgins"...
Just want to clear that up... Hope this guy enjoys his 'eternal reward'...
daniel (australia)
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As well as the uses Jim Gwyn mentioned. picric acid is also used in etchants for metallography. I've used the stuff myself for that purpose, usually diluted in ethanol to about 2-5% or so ("2% picral" - "5% picral"). It is particularly good for examining martensite microstructure in quenched and tempered steels. It does need to be handled with care though.
atblis
Member
Also
I've heard that picric acid was used for dying stuff for fly tying.
Supposedly things get interesting when it dries and crystallizes. Bad idea to store it in a threaded container.
EDIT: Found a link
http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/verhaar/picricacid/
I've heard that picric acid was used for dying stuff for fly tying.
Supposedly things get interesting when it dries and crystallizes. Bad idea to store it in a threaded container.
EDIT: Found a link
http://globalflyfisher.com/staff/verhaar/picricacid/
OrvilleYertleson
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They may have got that from Iran, but I am pretty sure that is a chinese mortar.
silverlance
Member
yikes.
that black thing going backwards DOES look like the guy's head. don't see much attach it to anything, though.
that black thing going backwards DOES look like the guy's head. don't see much attach it to anything, though.
357-8-times
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A friend of mine was walking down the street in Israel during the Second Intifada when a short distance ahead a Palestinian terrorist strapped with a bomb-belt blew himself up along with the random unfortunite people around him. He said that the only thing left of the terrorist was his bloody mangled head lying on the ground quite some distance from the scene. Apparently the head literally blows off of these wackjobs from the explosion around their waist.
Sharps-shooter
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Who was that guy firing the mortar? Any idea where this video came from? Somewhere that people speak arabic, fire mortars, and say "god is great" while they do it, wherever that is.
I'm wondering if the fact that he's praying while shooting means he reckons the thing might blow up.
I'm wondering if the fact that he's praying while shooting means he reckons the thing might blow up.
MD_Willington
Member
Read a story about SOG, they had some bogus 7.62x39 dropped off, later found an NVA guy with an AK bolt carrier stuck in his head, whatever they put in the bogus ammo had enough balls to kaboom the rifle & pop the bolt carrier and recoil assembly clear out of the back of the rifle.
matt87
Member
I've heard stories from 'Nam where soldiers would find an AK, take a round and pull the bullet. A slice of C4 would replace the poweder, the bullet be reinserted, the cartridge would be loaded some distance into the magazine (not he first round) and leave it lying around
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
No, the chant is a common one, "Alluha Akbar" or God is Great. In the now famous footage of the American medic getting shot by snipers, they make the same chant. They were not fearful of being blown up by their rifle. The medic, of course, survived with no harm because of his hard armor.
Autolycus
Member
I dont know if laughing at the death of someone is the appropriate thing to do. How does anyone know this man is an insurgent at all? Could he not be an ally of the US armed forces? Did anyone wonder where the video tape came from as I doubt an American GI shot the film?
As a GOOD Christian I cant enjoy the death of another human being. Its just repulsive that so many people are that bloodthirsty.
As a GOOD Christian I cant enjoy the death of another human being. Its just repulsive that so many people are that bloodthirsty.
atblis
Member
Yeah
Yeah, I've heard that one too. There's been some good threads on here addressing such folklore. Would be a good idea to find them and read them so as not to spread something that isn't true.
Yeah, I've heard that one too. There's been some good threads on here addressing such folklore. Would be a good idea to find them and read them so as not to spread something that isn't true.
Dorryn
Member
C4 is not explosive in that manner. You could set C4 on fire and cook your C-Rats over it... Putting C4 in a round would likely not appreciably hurt the VC in the way said soldiers would have likely intended.
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