John Lott on Australia, swords and laser pointers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Preacherman

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2002
Messages
13,306
Location
Louisiana, USA
From Lew Rockwell Online (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lott/lott27.html), March 24, 2004:

Banning Swords and Laser Pointers

AUSTRALIANS are a dangerous lot. Weapons that would hardly cause a second thought in the hands of a citizen in another country generate concern when held by an Australian.

Fortunately, some Australian state governments have understood the dangers of letting ordinary Australians get access to weapons such as laser pointers, a popular device for making business and academic presentations in countries such as the US.

Americans may feel safe when an academic addresses a conference using a laser pointer. In the hands of an Australian, however, there is understandable fear that these devices could do untold harm. An Australian academic with a laser pointer would cause real panic.

Now the Victorian Government is achieving international recognition for protecting Australians from a danger that has been around for far too long: swords. After July 1, swords will be banned and violators will face penalties that previously have been reserved for laser pointers – six months in jail and a $12,000 fine.

Swords are broadly defined as a cutting or thrusting weapon with a long blade, a hilt and one or two sharp edges. Although this unfortunately exempts knives with either no sharp or three or more sharp edges, or knives without handles, not specifying a blade length in the legislation hopefully ensures many knives will be banned.

A licensing process will be set up so that a select few will be granted an exemption and pay a $135 fee, but they will have to lock their weapons in sturdy safes and put in burglar alarms. If properly enforced, the law could produce other benefits, such as ensuring that dishes are promptly washed after dinner so that any offending steak knives can be placed back in their safe. On the downside, the knives would still be available during dinner when many family arguments might get out of hand. It is also not clear if the family will be able to use the knives if the license holder is not present.

And if Australians can’t be trusted with laser pointers or swords, they surely can’t be trusted with guns. Citizens in other countries are obviously much more trustworthy. Americans, for example, can own all these items. Indeed, 46 states in the US even trust millions of law-abiding Americans to carry concealed handguns when walking on the street or eating in restaurants.

And, yes, in most states an academic addressing a conference or a class can carry a gun along with a laser pointer. Over the decades, concealed handgun permit holders in the US have proven to be extremely law-abiding, losing their permits at only hundredths of thousandths of one percentage point for any type of firearms-related violation.

If dangerous weapons made citizens in other countries dangerous, no one would visit Switzerland. There, all able-bodied men between the ages of 20 and 42 are trusted to keep a machinegun in their homes as part of their military service. (Not the wimpy centre-fire semi-automatic rifles everyone is afraid to trust Australians with.) Yet the trust in the Swiss is well placed. Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates in Europe.

Letting law-abiding citizens in the US and Switzerland own guns lowers crime because would-be victims are able to deter criminals or, if confronted, protect themselves. Australians are clearly quite different. They understand the risks of letting Australians own guns. The International Crime Victimization Survey shows that Australia’s violent crime rate is already twice that of the US or Switzerland. Australia’s violent crime rate is about as high as England’s, a country that bans handguns.

It would be simple enough just to blame Australia’s high crime rates on its largely English heritage or its convict history, but for much of the past century Australia had lower crime rates than the US or the UK. Violent crime rates have gone up dramatically in Australia since the 1996 Port Arthur gun control measures. And violent crime rates averaged 20 per cent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did in 1996, 32 per cent higher than the violent crime rates in 1995. The same comparisons for armed robbery rates showed increases of 67 per cent and 74 per cent, respectively; for aggravated assault, 20 per cent and 32 per cent; for rape, 11 per cent and 12 per cent; murder, attempted murder and manslaughter rose by 5 per cent in both cases.

Perhaps six years of crime data is just not enough to evaluate the experience. Yet Australian governments seem to believe that if gun controls don’t work at first, more and stricter regulations (like getting rid of swords) are surely the solution. Remember, never second-guess government regulations.

While the ban on swords is modeled on the gun control measures, the Victorian Government obviously hopes that its new measure is more successful in reducing crime. Australian gun laws also require people to lock their guns in safes and ban many types of guns. But requiring an alarm for storing any swords, unlike the 15 or more rule for guns in Victoria, is a nice touch and may make the crucial difference.

Metal swords have been around since the Bronze Age, 4600 years ago. Yet citizens in few countries have so clearly posed dangers to themselves and it is fortunate that Victoria recognizes this.

Possibly, Australians can turn now to solving some really important problems. One suggestion: 240-volt electrical currents can kill you. Is it really true that Australians have these overpowering urges to try sticking metal in electrical sockets?
 
This is a prime example of a government that has run amuck. It is time for the Australian people to take back their country.

GT
 
Imagine the horror: Dr. John Lott presents his latest research to an audience while carrying a concealed handgun, using a saber as an illustration of the latest Aussie silliness, and employing a laser pointer to highlight aspects of his presentation. OH! The humanity! :rolleyes:

TC
TFL Survivor
 
I am now in a quandry. Which country is worse??? the UK or AUS??? Aus is banning swords, but some guy in the UK killed 1 of 4 burglars with a sword and is now in jail for 4 years!!!
 
agricola,

was that John or Mary saying that?

Ah, well, if you can't attack the argument... ;)


Tell me, ag, do you not find even the faintest whiff of the ridiculous in requiring people to keep sharpened metal bars locked up in bolted-down, alarm-equipped safes as though they were chunks of weapons-grade plutonium rather than quaint medieval relics?

Mayhaps the Australians will emulate the islanders to their North who were forbidden to own swords and come up with innovative uses for gardening tools so that future generations of kiddies can learn pruning-hook-fu and the kata of the chainsaw. :D
 
agricola,

As I recollect it, Bellisles lied as himself, while Lott presented the facts in drag. Do I misremember? ;)
 
What's next on the ban list? Fists? Teeth? Innuendo?

The inevitable conclusion to this misguided view of "civilization," ignoring the fact that weaponry is synonymous with its rise, is MASS SEDATION. Therein lies perfect social control and the obedient citizen dreamt of by the social planners.
 
What a damn disgrace! The place referred to as "Down Under", really is Down Under(mining the safety of their citizens)
 
Lott hyped himself as Mary Rosh (lying in the process), and suffered the same "dissappearing research" phenomena that Bellisiles did (does anyone else remember taking part in it yet?)

The difference is that Bellesiles' "lost" data was central to his argument. The data Lott lost however was not central to his own -- it simply restated what at least 10 other independent studies showed: that most civilian gun use resulted in no shots fired.

The data for Lott's central theory (concealed carry = reduction in crime) remains intact, and has been shared with his harshest critics who can only nibble on the edges but still can't dispute his findings.

Lott opened himself up to legit criticism by restating course evaluation comments under the pseudonym of Mary Rosh. He probably has hurt his reputation, but nonetheless his conclusion remains solid (unlike Bellesiles', which is trashed).

Nice try though.
 
Last edited:
"what the australians decide to do in their country is up to them."

Good, Agricola. Now, according to that corollary, Americans can honor their 2nd Amendment and everyone in Europe can shut the heck up?
 
Agricola, that's too loose......

to let pass:

"what the australians decide to do in their country is up to them."
************************************************************

As with Britain, these laws are being imposed from the top down, by the prevailing governments of the day. There is no opposition because all the major parties agree on the anti-gun policies.

The supreme test of a sound democracy is the degree of protection of the rights of minorities.

Gunowners are a minority in both our nations, and they certainly are being persecuted without cause in both our nations, for very questionable motives.:mad:
 
Bellesiles, Lott. Who cares who comes up with what.

Anybody who took debate class in school knows an argument can be made for any side of any topic and the truth stretched to make your case.

The absolute bottom line is my God given right to self protection for me and my family backed up by the second amendment.

Those freedoms fought and paid for by my family, past, present and the future.

If any other country wants to play disarm the people, then if those people don't care one bit about their well being then they deserve what they get and I have no sympathy for them.

No I don't need some "intellectual" to tell me what I already know.
 
You can uh, have my hand and a half sword when you pry it ... the fifty or so Iaido, Kenjutsu boys in Victoria may be a little annoye uh, compliant as usual.

I, hypocrite.

The million or so women (quasi men included) who agree with this law -- cheer.

EDIT: Oh, and the other million (the "real" men) only care (generalization -- but true nonetheless) if they can watch their *insert sport here* and drink beer.

The small criminal element love democracy (a minority that benefits).
 
Last edited:
AG said:
his confused equivalent in the gun lobby remains unchallenged.
Well, no. Lott has been 'challenged' by the anti-gun core of "Advocacy Researchers," though not successfully so.

Banning possession of cutlery and light-emitting diodes. And those crazy Aussie peons put up with it.

Rick
 
Agricola has a point

Look, as abhorrent as Australia's laws are to us Americans, the government there is allowed to continue to be oppressive because the citizens (subjects?) allow them to do so. And parliamentary democracy, where the whims of the majority run all foreign and domestic policies, is no help either.

As Americans, the best we can do is take the awful lessons to heart, and not allow those mistakes to be made here. In the end, you can only be oppressed if you allow yourself to be. Sheep are made, not born.

The important question is, has all this anti-weapon frenzy prohibited the showing of the "Crocodile Dundee" Movies? :D

"That's not a knife. THIS is a knife!" Cracks me up every time! Guess he's a Thought Criminal now.
 
No, no, The_Antibubba

"That's not a knife. THIS is a knife!"
************************************************************

In today's "post buyback" weapons-free Australia, such a statement would result a police officer magically appearing to pronounce it a 'prohibited weapon' and immediately haul Paul Hogan off to jail.

The mugger would receive counselling for any trauma sustained as a result of exposure to said prohibited weapon.:eek:


My own trusty 15 year old Swiss army knife is now of questionable legality for pocket carry, although it may be carried in a belt pouch as long as I can demonstrate "genuine need" when questioned by a police officer.:scrutiny:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top