John Wesley Hardin -distance?
- Thread starter mec
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Shawnee
member
Hi MEC...
I think JWH's shooting was usually at less than 50 ft but could be wrong.
I don't think it was more than 50 ft though. Had always heard his favorite sixgun was the 1860 Army but can't swear to that either.
You do some flat-out fine shooting with those wheelguns, MEC. If we ever get into a range war I wanna be on your side!
I think JWH's shooting was usually at less than 50 ft but could be wrong.
I don't think it was more than 50 ft though. Had always heard his favorite sixgun was the 1860 Army but can't swear to that either.
You do some flat-out fine shooting with those wheelguns, MEC. If we ever get into a range war I wanna be on your side!
SouthpawShootr
Member
Found something of interest here: http://historytogo.utah.gov/salt_lake_tribune/in_another_time/040295.html
So the question is: How far is a pace? Seems like it couldn't be more than 10-15 ft tops.
So the question is: How far is a pace? Seems like it couldn't be more than 10-15 ft tops.
I'de agree with Southpaw. I would think that a pace would be one stride or one step. Since, depending on a person's height, a step would be between a minimium of 30 inches to a max of app 36 inches, five paces would be 12.5 feet to app 15 feet. Possibly the length of the saloon bar. Wonder if they used something for a backstop or just hoped the wall would stop the bullets?
Regards-conwic
Regards-conwic
Shawnee
member
If you go out and shoot at "5 paces" - say 'bout 15ft, you're going to have 'em all in the same hole.
Hmmm. I wonder if JWH was sober when he did his shooting!
Hmmm. I wonder if JWH was sober when he did his shooting!
SouthpawShootr
Member
Probably didn't care. If somebody sued him, he'd probably just shoot the lawyer.
He was using a .38 Colt model 1877 double-action revolver (commonly called the "Lightning) and they weren't exactly target pistols. In addition, no one seems to recorded how fast he did this shooting. Perhaps his marksmanship was better then might be supposed. 
Jerry Morris
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I can shoot em all into one hole with a 9MM, or .45 ACP. But, the Colt's SAA is a whole nuther critter. You got to try it to understand it. It just isn't those crude sights, or the off set trigger, it is also the gawdawful long hammer fall.
If I were to go back in time with my 1991A1, or High Power. I could be well regarded and feted to many fine meals and much drink, until I ran out of ammo and had to shoot on an even footing.
Times have changed and we are blessed with fine guns and ammo, well above that of our forebears. Some of them actually could do these things and they are more of a wonder for it.
Jerry
I have always felt that somebody got fifty feet and fifteen feet mixed up.
In other words, fifteen feet was the most probable distance he fired the groups into the playing cards.
As I understand the tale, John Wesley Hardin shot those groups live and in front of witnesses.
They were fired within the city limits and with the blessings of the local law enforcment so fifteen feet is more believable as fifty feet would be an unsafe distance in a populated area even in the 1890s.
After shooting he would sign the cards and sell them on the spot.
Since these events took place late in his life the probable guess is that he was drunk or at the very least "in his cups" when the playing card groups were fired.
In other words, fifteen feet was the most probable distance he fired the groups into the playing cards.
As I understand the tale, John Wesley Hardin shot those groups live and in front of witnesses.
They were fired within the city limits and with the blessings of the local law enforcment so fifteen feet is more believable as fifty feet would be an unsafe distance in a populated area even in the 1890s.
After shooting he would sign the cards and sell them on the spot.
Since these events took place late in his life the probable guess is that he was drunk or at the very least "in his cups" when the playing card groups were fired.
MCgunner
Member
I don't know, but one of his playing cards is worth a heck of a lot more'n yours. 
or one of the license plates. he shoots from the hip with a 45 acp and hits a license plate every single time at 25 yards. I know that this is true because he said so in a sixgunner.com post.
"Seen the price on one of Hardens guns at auction lately?
"
Hmmmm...You have a point there. Current cost of Hardin's guns is quite high.I was thinking about what the guns cost him at the time. By that standard, his playing cards would have been cheaper too. What a dumb thing for me to say!
"Seen the price on one of Hardens guns at auction lately?
"
Hmmmm...You have a point there. Current cost of Hardin's guns is quite high.I was thinking about what the guns cost him at the time. By that standard, his playing cards would have been cheaper too. What a dumb thing for me to say!
MCgunner
Member
Me, too, double post. Whazzup with this BBS?
MCgunner
Member
Well, in 1873, the Colt Peacemaker was about 6 months of the average man's salary, or so I've been told. Today, the average man makes (according to the news report I saw the other day, a dead reliable source
) about 40K a year, or something like that. So, your gun cost you more than $20K? Hitting a playing card OFF HAND at 100 yards with every shot????? Hmm, sounds like a human ransom rest. I don't know if any of my revolvers could keep 'em all in a playing card from a ransom rest at that range. 4" is danged good accuracy at 100 yards for a revolver. I smell some BS factor here. LOL!
I could put 5 rounds into a playing card off a bench rest with my Contender, maybe, if I didn't have too much coffee that morning, ROFL!
she also shot the tip off of her husband's finger-but only once.
The deal with the finger placement:
I had a tendency to hit low and left with this revolver even though It shot right on from the bench at 25 yards. This was with middle of my first joint on the trigger- all shooting one handed. I was pushing the trigger even though it didn/t feel like it. Moving my finger out toward the tip of the first joint has me hitting the same poa as from the bench. Here's what it looked like when I finally grasped the concept:
Current results are better centered and somewhat smaller.
The only reason I can see for my initial confusion about it is that I was shooting well centered groups with light triggered Colts and Ubertis. replacing the standard trigger return spring with a wire wolff cut the trigger pull from over four pounds to just under three and this helped too. It is still a bit heavier than some of the tuned colts I have shot which no doubt contributed to my continuing tendency to push the group. The trigger finger placement did the trick though.
The deal with the finger placement:
I had a tendency to hit low and left with this revolver even though It shot right on from the bench at 25 yards. This was with middle of my first joint on the trigger- all shooting one handed. I was pushing the trigger even though it didn/t feel like it. Moving my finger out toward the tip of the first joint has me hitting the same poa as from the bench. Here's what it looked like when I finally grasped the concept:
Current results are better centered and somewhat smaller.
The only reason I can see for my initial confusion about it is that I was shooting well centered groups with light triggered Colts and Ubertis. replacing the standard trigger return spring with a wire wolff cut the trigger pull from over four pounds to just under three and this helped too. It is still a bit heavier than some of the tuned colts I have shot which no doubt contributed to my continuing tendency to push the group. The trigger finger placement did the trick though.
Re: distance of a "pace"
The actual distance for a pace can vary based upon the definition used. I've seen a "pace" defined as each time a foot hits the ground and each time the left foot hits the ground. In surveying a "pace" is usually defined as the former, but I have seen reference to the latter in military related literature.
For an average human a first definiton pace would be approximately 3'. Therefore, the five pace distance could be 15' or 30'. Take your pick.
I bet my bro will be along shortly to tell me my surveying definition is completely wrong.
The actual distance for a pace can vary based upon the definition used. I've seen a "pace" defined as each time a foot hits the ground and each time the left foot hits the ground. In surveying a "pace" is usually defined as the former, but I have seen reference to the latter in military related literature.
For an average human a first definiton pace would be approximately 3'. Therefore, the five pace distance could be 15' or 30'. Take your pick.
I bet my bro will be along shortly to tell me my surveying definition is completely wrong.
Concerning duelling MEC.
If one chooses to believe the "pistols at 10 paces", is that 10 paces each, i.e. 60', or 5 paces each, i.e. 30'. If it was 60' then duelling was probably a relatively safe sport, all things considered, otherwise it was damn serious business cause 30' is real damn close for a lined up shot.
If one chooses to believe the "pistols at 10 paces", is that 10 paces each, i.e. 60', or 5 paces each, i.e. 30'. If it was 60' then duelling was probably a relatively safe sport, all things considered, otherwise it was damn serious business cause 30' is real damn close for a lined up shot.
Vern Humphrey
Member
A pace is 5 feet. A step is half that, 30 inches or 2 1/2 feet.
A Roman mile was 5,000 feet long, and we call it a "mile" from the Latin, "mille" meaning "thousand." A thousand paces makes a mile (more or less.)
You count paces by stepping off with the left foot and counting each time the right foot strikes the ground.
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