Juneteenth Violence

[ryoushi]

Police say David Rivas Morales, 40, died after as many as 20 men beat him outside the Booker T. Washington apartment complex. Detectives say the crime was unlike anything they have ever seen, a flagrant act of mob violence, that happened just outside his sister's front door.

Margaret Morales can't understand why a mob would beat her brother dead. “He was just the kind of person who would help anybody out if they needed help,” Margaret Morales said. “He would help them before himself.”

Police are describing Morales as a Good Samaritan who was riding in a car that accidentally struck a child. He was trying to stop an angry mob from hurting the driver and ended up getting killed by the crowd. “I'd say about 25 to 30 people were jumping on this guy, hitting him everywhere, kicking, stomping on him,” Marcus Morris said.

Morris was using a payphone just a few feet away and saw it all. “It looked like a mad house, honestly,” Morris said. “I can't believe it got so out of control. It started maybe with one or two guys and it seemed like people were jumping out of thin air. I mean, they were coming from everywhere.”

Police are still trying to figure out the numbers. “If you think about it logistically, you can only get so many people around one person,” Cmdr. Harold Piatt said. “So there could have been anywhere from 6 to 20 people actually involved in the physical confrontation.”

It is a violent image Margaret Morales can't forget. “I'll live with that memory for the rest of my life,” Margaret said. “Knowing I saw him lying there and couldn't do anything.”

Detectives admit this will be a complicated crime to solve. As many as 3,000 people were in the area last night for the Juneteenth celebrations and they're holding onto hope witnesses will come forward.

What would you do? If you're the diver a legitimate question here I believe is. "Do I stop or do I get away from the area and call the police?" The law demands you stop but.....

Next, you're the passenger you are legally carrying a semi auto pistol you have 9 rds of .45 acp at your disposal. Your friend is being beaten to a pulp by...say 4 good size teen-twentyish males backed up by 20-30 like minded well wishers. How to proceed?

 

[birdv]

Sad Juneteenth. I cannot believe more has not been said about David Rivas Morales.

Even if your unarmed you must help.

I live in Texas and there is a case of 00 buck 12ga in my truck for hunting. Along with filled mags and a saiga 12ga.

"semi auto pistol you have 9 rds of .45 acp"
I would have discharged my firearm.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Next, you're the passenger you are legally carrying a semi auto pistol you have 9 rds of .45 acp at your disposal. Your friend is being beaten to a pulp by...say 4 good size teen-twentyish males backed up by 20-30 like minded well wishers. How to proceed?

I hate to say it but sometimes you are just screwed.

 

[Zundfolge]

Being white and all, I just make sure I'm on the other side of town when there's a Juneteenth celebration. The fact that my ancestors were abolitionists that ran stops on the underground railroad (and IIRC one died fighting side by side with John Brown at Harper's Ferry) means nothing to those people.


Avoidance is the greatest strategy and most effective tactic.

 

[shooter503]

The scenario has all of the requirements to engage (except enough ammo).

Try to deal with the immediate problem then see who is brave, or foolish, enough to continue. Of course, with that sort of crowd you are likely to find some of them are armed.

Probably beats getting beat if you see what I mean.

 

[ryoushi]

The scenario has all of the requirements to engage (except enough ammo).

Yes! I had a person on another site question the legitimacy of high capacity magazines, I threw this incident right back into their face. And that got me to thinking about my 1911, I never carry a spare mag, that needs to change.

Today sitting here I'd have to say in the same scenario if I'm the driver I keep going.

If I'm the passenger I'd have to shoot. Hopefully the initial volley and death would shock the crowd enough to allow us to get in the car and leave.

 

[Im283]

Many years ago while commuting though the hood in Cincinnati on my way to school I had an accident with a resident of the area. I do not mind telling you I was getting very afraid for my safety. I was very lucky that there was a fire station on one of the corners and two of the fireman stationed there came to me and took me into their station until the police arrived. Mind you in my situation there were no injuries and the resident of the area was cited for the accident. Just the same if not for the fireman I might have been beat upon.

I would absolutely drive away and deal with the hit and run part rather than stay and be killed or maimed.

 

[Wedge]

Tough situation and happened in my town which is generally very low crime, but the mob mentality took over.


Shoot, try to escape, call the police. Only thing to do is escape.

However, it is precisely the reason I hate crowds and hate crowds in a car. Partially similar situation after leaving a concert, fight breaks out, cars start getting hit by each other or by rocks/beer bottles. Fortunately our car was very small, I drafted behind a big 3/4 ton and got the heck out of there.

 

[shooter503]

Touchy situation indeed. I was following a car in Saudi Arabia that hit a little girl a glancing blow. I stopped and the crowd thought I had hit her. The lynch mob started to form but I was lucky enough to have an English speaking middle/upper class Saudi driving behind me who saved my neck. At the very least I would have been sent for a stretch in a very unpleasant prison.

 

[Imaginos]

The Denny Scenario

Reginald Denny faced this situation in LA.
As I understand it, he is still pretty messed up, but he is alive thanks to a few rioters that picked him up and got him away from the punks who were tring to kill him.

In DFW we get La Raza, Junteenth, and "OU Weekend".
I mostly stay home. If I have to go out, I'm armed.

Most mobs are composed of people who still think as individuals, so a few well aimed shots should scatter them long enough to get the car moving again. It takes a lot of enthusiasm and/or discipline to take casualties assaulting a position, and most flash mobs don't have it.

 

[Sam Adams]

And that got me to thinking about my 1911, I never carry a spare mag, that needs to change.

I have an 8-round Chip McCormack in my .45 at all times, which I load with 7 plus having the one in the chamber. About 6 months ago I started carrying a 10-round CM in my pocket, filled to capacity. 18 rounds of .45 HP ought to do the trick in about 99.999% of cases. I had thought about getting the Springfield XD in .45, but the CM mag was a whole lot cheaper.

 

[WolfMansDad]

Detectives admit this will be a complicated crime to solve. As many as 3,000 people were in the area last night for the Juneteenth celebrations and they're holding onto hope witnesses will come forward.

This burns me up. Lots and lots of people know who committed this crime, and they aren't talking to the police.

 

[birdv]

3,000 = no witnesses!

I bet that a video gets posted on youtube.com

 

[ar10]

Sounds/reads a lot like Somlia in 1991

 

[johndoe1027]

Next, you're the passenger you are legally carrying a semi auto pistol you have 9 rds of .45 acp at your disposal. Your friend is being beaten to a pulp by...say 4 good size teen-twentyish males backed up by 20-30 like minded well wishers. How to proceed?

4 COM (or head) shots on each of the good size teen-twentyish males would most likely scatter the rest of the group. If not, hope and pray that stopping the first 5 that rush you after that will scatter the rest.

That said, I carry 8 in my 1911 and a 10 round reload. If I had enough distance I feel confident that I could give my buddy a MUCH better chance of survival. If nothing else, it would surely create some witnesses.

Sad story. Glad I live in the mountains.

 

[ravencon]

Sad Juneteenth. I cannot believe more has not been said about David Rivas Morales.

Some victims are more equal than others. But you already knew that.

 

[Mannlicher]

Zundfloge

Being white and all, I just make sure I'm on the other side of town when there's a Juneteenth celebration. The fact that my ancestors were abolitionists that ran stops on the underground railroad (and IIRC one died fighting side by side with John Brown at Harper's Ferry) means nothing to those people.

my ancestors were 'ranchers', and fought with Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia.

That would mean nothing to 'those people' either. What our ancestors did 150 years ago means little today.

 

[Tokugawa]

XD_ my thought exactly.

 

[Gordon]

I stay far away of such nonsense, I prefer to visit the local zoo on such days

 

[Checkman]

Being tactical means avoiding trouble spots if possible. For example if I'm not working I avoid Cinco de Mayo "festivities". I see way too many known gangmembers at those gatherings for me to take my kids to them. It's also gotten to be the same for the county fair.

 

[tnieto2004]

People usually run after gun shots .. Just an observation .. 9 shots may have been more than enough to save his life

 

[Jenrick]

Being an Austin resident, I might point all of you to following article

:http://www.austinpolice.com/localnews-aas.htm#blame

A brief quote from the full article, which was re-posted on the Austin Police Association website. It is also avialable from the Austin American statesman website, but you have to register to view.

06-22-07:
City accepts blame for flawed report
Misleading information on beating death put Austin in international spotlight.

By Tony Plohetski
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Friday, June 22, 2007

Austin city officials accepted blame Thursday for an international media glare that they acknowledged had its roots in a misleading news release issued by the Police Department.

A release sent at 9:30 a.m. Wednesday, 12 hours after the death of 40-year-old David Morales, recounted how he was fatally beaten by "several black males" near a parking lot and how "there were 2,000 people to 3,000 people who were in the area" when he was attacked.

It set off media reports worldwide that Austin was the site of a racially motivated beating by what several outlets called an "angry mob" of Juneteenth celebrants.

Throughout the day Wednesday, the department revised the account with two more news releases — the last one at 8:58 p.m. — and in interviews with investigators, ultimately pointing out that there were three or four assailants, there were up to 20 witnesses in the area and that there was no connection to Juneteenth activities. That was how the incident was reported in Thursday's American-Statesman.

But the damage had been done.

.

Basically there was no mass mob, just 20 or so folks. Still a crowd, but not mob.

-Jenrick

 

[Black Adder LXX]

I hate to say it but sometimes you are just screwed.

+1 adding that, you'd either be killed for doing the right thing and stopping, or completely destroyed in the media and courts for the hate crime of the hit and run.

I'd rather not have been there, drove away if possible to find a safe place to report the accident, or barring that definitely gone down fighting, hoping that taking a few out with me would scatter the pack.

 

[ar10]

That's a common tactic by PIO's and public officials when something gets published to start backtracking on what actually happened. It happens all the time during MB Black Bike week. The first one put MB all over the news wires and even got into the European news. The problem is MB gets huge revenues from the tourists. The result is BBWK still goes one, they still tear up the city, and the city is slowly adding more and more restrictions to eliminate any bike related rallys.
Here in Columbus they had the ComFest last week. Between 700~800 people rioted between 11:40pm and 4:00am. a couple of officers were hurt and some of the rioters were arrested. There was not one single piece of news of it in the paper or the 3 local news channels. In fact the only way Columbus acknowledged the incident was when it was published in the Beacon Journal a few days later.

 

[Glockfan.45]

Theres a underfolder AK behind my truck seat with two 30 round mags at all times. My advice is to avoid such gatherings as they ALWAYS lead to trouble for somebody. However if I am about to watch a buddy get stomped by a mob then its time to lock and load. I'll worry about the legal s**t storm later. One and only one warning shot will be fired. If said mob fails to disperse after said warning shot then I will take as many center mass hits as needed to discourage them.