Just about drew in two separate incidents Saturday

[Cougfan2]

Thought I might have to draw my pistol on someone twice in two separate incidents this last Saturday. First incident, I was on the way back from the nursery with some plants and supplies on TV HWY in Beaverton. Was in the adjacent lane to a young Asian woman in a VM bug with a toddler in the baby seat in back. Eventually was in the same lane behind her when an older Nissan pickup with some landscaping tools got ahead of me and directly behind her. The guy had been aggressively tailgating several people and weaving between lanes. A light went yellow and the lady in the VW probably could have made it, but stopped quickly. Didn't jam her brakes on, just stopped quickly. The guy in the Nissan PU locks his brakes up and darn near rear ends her. At this point he goes into full road rage mode gesturing and screaming. Then I see him take off his seatbelt and think, Oh man, this about to go bad. I take my 1911 out of the bag and thought to myself, if this guy gets out of the car, he's going to give me no choice. Luckily it was a short red light and he gets around her and flies off.

In hindsight, I probably should have called 911, but he really had done nothing but be a jerk.

Not 15 minutes later I come up to my house and as I'm pulling into the driveway I see a person crouched down and peering through our front picture window. I tuck the 1911 into my wasteband and walk up quietly about 15 feet behind them and say in a rather loud voice, "May I help you?". Turns out it was a friend of my wife that I had met only once so I didn't recognize her and she had seen a chocolate Lab running and was trying to see if mine was in the house or was the one running loose. Gave both of us a little fright, but she never saw my weapon.

I had a toddy shortly there after.

Any critique? What would you have done differently?

 

[jlbraun]

The guy in the Nissan PU locks his brakes up and darn near rear ends her. At this point he goes into full road rage mode gesturing and screaming. Then I see him take off his seatbelt and think, Oh man, this about to go bad. I take my 1911 out of the bag and thought to myself, if this guy gets out of the car, he's going to give me no choice.

Wrong answer. What if the woman in the VW had just kidnapped his son in a custody dispute? 9/10 times what you see ain't what you think it is. And in most states, you're allowed to use deadly force to prevent a kidnapping. So if the guy gets out a crowbar and tries to get into the backseat, who's the kidnapper? The woman, or the man? You have 2 seconds to decide. Get a license plate number and call the police.

Second incident, perhaps you should consider carrying a flashlight.

 

[Thernlund]

...if this guy gets out of the car, he's going to give me no choice.

No choice to... what? You're implication is to shoot him. My first thought would be threaten deadly force. In this case that'd have probably been plenty.

The only way I'd shoot somebody cold is if a) they had a gun; or b) they were actively in the process of committing assault.

Heh. Of course, we never know until we know, eh?


-T.

 

[Cougfan2]

jlbraun First incident, I see your point and agree, I probably should have called 911, but it didn't appear he was targeting her directly. He had been aggressively tailgating other drivers as well.

Second incident, I respectfully disagree. If the person had turned around with a gun in their hand or belt, I don't want to be standing there with my flashlight in my hand.

 

[Cougfan2]

thernlund By no choice I meant confrontation. I should have been more clear. I'm not in the shoot first ask questions later league.

 

[jlbraun]

I don't want to be standing there with my flashlight in my hand.

Presumably, you have the other hand on the butt of your gun anyway.

 

[Cougfan2]

Presumably, you have the other hand on the butt of your gun anyway.

 

[shdwfx]

What if the woman in the VW had just kidnapped his son in a custody dispute? 9/10 times what you see ain't what you think it is.

I understand your point about jumping to conclusions, but what's more likely? The guy with a crowbar is in full road-rage mode, the events leading up to which you are a witness? Or, the woman driving a VW has a kidnapped toddler being safely transported in full view. I doubt the second scenario is 9 times as likely.

Yes, it's a judgment call, but there's no way I only dial 911 while some punk clubs a woman in the head with a crowbar.

 

[jlbraun]

Presumably, you have the other hand on the butt of your gun anyway.

Oh, hell.

 

[jlbraun]

there's no way I passively dial 911 while some punk clubs a woman in the head with a crowbar in front of me.

That's different of course. If someone's actively committing deadly assault...

 

[LegalAlien]

Assumptions

Second incident, perhaps you should consider carrying a flashlight

hhhmmmmm . . . . who said it was dark and he needed a flashlight??? It would look kinda silly walking around with a flashlight in broad daylight

I reread the OP and did not see any reference to time of day. Please correct me if I am wrong

 

[jlbraun]

You're right, there was no statement it was dark. I inferred that from the post.

 

[LegalAlien]

And your inference might just be correct anyway

 

[Cougfan2]

It was broad daylight about Noon. Besides, if I'm close enough to hit them with a flashlight, they're close enough to hit me. I carry a little Surefire, but maybe I could have shoved it down her throat and choked her to death.

 

[Exmasonite]

In hindsight, I probably should have called 911, but he really had done nothing but be a jerk.

I will respectfully disagree with this... if you were ready to draw your gun, it's hypocritical to say there wasn't good reason to call the police.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Coug, looks like you handled everything pretty well, for the most part. Thanks for being on the look out: prudent, armed, and vigilant people like you make society a better place.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[Treo]

QUOTE: "In hindsight, I probably should have called 911, but he really had done nothing but be a jerk."

It's been said but if he hasn't done enough for to call 911 he's definetely not done enough for you to even THINK about bringing a gun into it.

 

[dubious]

Cougfan, I think you were in the right ballpark with your actions... some of these other folks are giving you a hard time. I probably wouldn't get involved with someone else's case of road rage, but its not my style to dive into confrontations. Judging from the fact that you did NOT draw your gun in situation #2 with a stranger in your house leads me to think that you would not have drawn on the road rager unless he really was going to attack that VW Mom. And even then, my guess is you probably would have avoided shooting him unless it was REALLY necessary.

There are a LOT of possible responses to any given scenario and its easy to second guess yourself after the fact, but your responses were well within reason. Its good to think about what the IDEAL response would have been, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Treo, Exmasonite,

I think he meant that he wasn't about to call the cops afterwards, when all was said and done, the rager had driven off, and he realized that the rager had not escalated beyond being an increasingly threatening jerk. The rager could have very quickly escalated his actions beyond mere posturing, and Coug was right to be ready and alert in case the rager did go beyond merely being a vaguely threatening jerk. As Dubious said, I'm sure he only would've drawn if the rager proved himself to be anything more than a posturing jerk.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[igpoobah]

Hey, 2 incidents and no shots fired. Sounds like a win to me.

 

[rrruuunnn]

i would have been in level orange in both cases.

i've read a story of road rage. the bg was punching the head of a driver. punches to the head is lethal force. the car behind shot the attacker and it was considered self defense of another. i wouldn't count on this defense.

 

[Mp7]

snort less gunpowder, drink more beer.

IMHO both situations shouldn´t get you overly
paranoid.....

Is there a book:
"Zen and the art of CCW"?

(..yet?)

 

[hankpac]

investigate further

That Chocolate lab story is BS. That supposed friend was casing your house.
You've only met her once, how man y times has your wife met her? If your wife says, "She isn't THAT good a friend, I hardly know her, she is a friend of a friend of a friend."
I think a little more caution and suspicion is warranted here.

 

[rjohnson4405]

^^ Probably wise, I didn't think about it at first but it definitely fits here depending on how well your wife knew her.

 

[Cougfan2]

hankpac My wife actually knows her quite well as they are in the same bunko group. I've only met her once as we only host bunko at our house once a year and when we do I'm usually holed up upstairs watching a DVD with the dogs snoozing at my feet. No way she was casing the house, just maybe didn't think what it would look like if someone drove up and seeing what she was doing. I made sure she didn't see my pistol, because after I assessed the situation I didn't want to freak her out.