Just another lame question, What would I do?

[johnny wong]

Many years ago, time that I happened to get in to a fight to defend myself, the only source that I relied on was my martial self defense ability.
I am looking to get a CCW permit so I would be able to CCW. My biggest concern is I will not know when and/or not really want to use the deadly force at all. How do I justify when to use it and when not to? More than likely I would rather defend myself physically. so if this is you, what would you do?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Even if you had the skills, would you take on two assailants? How about three? Now, throw in a fourth? What would a reasonable prudent person do under like circumstances?

 

[P95Carry]

''Defend physically''? ........... ''justify'' .... ''when not to'' .........

Hmmm .... well - much has to be down to perceived threat, even assuming you are good martial arts-wise. I'd say in a ''situation'' where someone has drawn down on you or is fast approaching wielding an edged weapon ... then it's an ''in extremis'' threat ...... in other words ... if it's a ''him or me'' scenario .... don't think much decision making to be made!!

The capability to physically disarm a gun toter has gotta be good .... real good IMO ...... tho I guess if proximity is on your side perhaps it'll work. Situational awareness will always be something to cultivate .... a matter we have discussed in many threads here.

The other option .... and not one to be scoffed at .... is can you find cover/retreat/get the hell away?? If yes and that eliminates the threat to your person then go for it. needless to say ..... every situation has in the end to be judged on specific merits and de-merits. This is quite a large can'0'worms!

 

[CWL]

Take some good gun training courses. The good ones will not just tell you how to shoot but will spend time to work on your situational awareness to let you understand just when deadly force is justified. Good instructors will impart to you knowledge as to what is legally justifiable in your area.

 

[Glamdring]

Guidelines from my carry permit class here in MN.


1 You must be reluctant participant.

2 Must be reasonably in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm.

3 No lesser force will serve, making deadly force necessary.

4 Retreat is not practical (basically repeats 1 & 3 IMO)

 

[PileDriver]

defending yourself physically when carrying is foolish.

 

[Jim March]

Errrr...no, actually, in my opinion not having it concealed to a point where it'll remain concealed during a fistfight is foolish.

In my opinion, anyways. And a good case can be made for ALWAYS carrying OC spray when packin' a gun, for this same basic issue: a less-than-lethal situation breaking out.

--

The basic question to ask yourself is: "am I in fear of losing my life and/or suffering great bodily injury?"

Any number of things will alter the answer to that question: the number of assailants, the motive (hate crime? outright assassination attempt?), who the assailant is, what ELSE have they done (did you just see them stomp the stuffing outta some other dude?), and much more. Your own medical history factors in: is there some reason a punch to the face will do you serious harm, or even increase your risk (former stroke patient, fr'instance)?

Example: my kid brother at age 15 had multiple brain surgeries for hydrocephalus, and had different attempts done to put plastic shunt hardware in. So by a few months into this, he had unstable plastic hardware in his head, and about six holes though his skull .

At a local grocery store, some big black dude assumed he was a skinhead, as his hair was clearly shaved and he had a black knit cap over his head. So this moron tries to pick a fight with him. My brother took his cap off...the sight of about 40 stitches and other obvious medical work took the wind right out of the idiot, and he apologized profusely.

But let's say he came out swinging faster...and I was nearby with a CCW piece. I guarantee you, at the first hint this guy was going to punch my brother (first time or repeatedly), I'd have drawn and fired in one smooth motion, no regrets, no hesitation whatsoever. No warning, either. I would act to reduce the risk of death to my kin from the illegal assault to the maximum degree physically possible.

It wouldn't have MATTERED what the assailant thought he was doing. What would matter was the risk of severe medical harm the idiot was going to do to my kid brother.

(Oh ya: after 11 surgeries in a period of a bit over a year, four months in a full coma and nine months of in-patient rehab, my brother made a full recovery, no loss of function at all. He'll have plastic hardware in place his whole life, but other than that, no problems. The hardware actually survived a fairly serious motorcycle crash years later (and yes, he recovered from that too .))

 

[P95Carry]

Great news re your bro Jim ..... one hell of an ordeal for him .... and those around him too.

Pleased to know that.... miracles can and do still happen.

 

[Powderman]

First rule of concealed carry--don't get into a physical altercation while carrying. At least, not a long drawn out firstfight.

If someone wants to pick a fight, WALK AWAY. No matter what they do as long as it is not life or limb threatening, and poses no real threat to the safety of your loved ones or others.

If you MUST go hands on, and there is no other way out, be quick. Be fast. Strike decisively--but ONLY with a view to give yourself room to get out fast.

Remember, if you actively CCW, there is always at least one gun at any fight--and it's yours.

 

[Hillman]

Martial arts, as well as any of the other "contact" sports (boxing, grappling, etc) are a TOOL for self-preservation. Just as is OC spray, edged weapons, and firearms.

WHEN might the gun come into play? Here's some scenerios that come to mind:
* Bad Guy (BG) with an edged weapon within 21 feet;
* BG at any distance with a gun;
* A situation of 'disparity of force'. For example, multiple BGs, BG known to be skilled in 'combat arts', physical disability (casts, wheelchairs, etc);

Can you handle yourself? I'm sure you can. Most of us would like to think we can, anyway.

But let's say I'm with my 5-year old son. 2 BGs approach. Without my firearm, I cannot protect him -and- myself. We cannot flee as he cannot run as fast as I can, nor could I pick him up and out-distance the BGs. My concern in this case is with him. Without the firearm, I would need to engage on *their* terms. What if their goal was kidnapping? If I were to go hand-to-hand with one, the other is left to snatch my child. If I were tragically incapacitated, he would be theirs. My firearm is not only an equalizer, it allows me to engage on *my* terms, and at a minimum, may be a tool to allow us to put more distance between us and the threat.

Speak to a CCW instructor - perhaps he'll be willing to spend some time with you on the phone, or in person, to discuss your concerns.

 

[PileDriver]

Errrr...no, actually, in my opinion not having it concealed to a point where it'll remain concealed during a fistfight is foolish.

it's not the keeping it concealed during a fist fight that i was referring to. keeping it safely in your holster while fighting is foolish. what do you do if your opponent lands one and while you're clearing your head, you realize that your gun is somewhere other than in your holster?


i have two black belts and also teach weapon retention locally. fighting while carrying is something i never would encourage, even if one knows what he's doing. you can always slip on gravel, ice, dirt, a punch or a kick.

 

[RandyB]

If you are going to CCW then you have to come to the realization that if you need to defend yourself, you can defend yourself and the person attacking you may die. You have to ask yourself "can I tak another humans life?" If you answer yes then look at getting a CCW. If you answer No then the risk (in my opinion) of having a gun is that it will be used on you.