Unarmed Self Defense...

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phoglund

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A lot of you folks carry which is great, but how many of you are trained in unarmed self defense? Not all situations one may encounter warrant deadly force or you may be attacked without sufficient warning to get to your firearm. I think the ability to fight long enough to get free and draw is important.

It seems to me that being able to fight without a firearm is as important as being able to fight with one. How do you feel about martial arts, self defense training, physical conditioning in regards to personal safety?
 
It should be a part of the whole self-defense package, but it's probably a sore point. I'll bet many of us are overweight, wheezy and not in particularly great physical shape. Ever been to a gun show? I rest my case. :p
 
A frequent topic of discussion in Strategy and Tactics.

The gun is not a magic wand and does you no good if you can't get to it. Having been attacked on 3 different occasions in only one of them was there any opportunty to draw a weapon and that was before I was old enough to legally carry a handgun.
 
It is a frequent topic.

I'd say you should know how to handle yourself in a physical fight. Hence, I study Krav Maga.
 
While I have acquired a substantial amount of unarmed self-defense, weapon retention and martial arts training over the past many years, I believe it's important to remember the reason many people carry a firearm is because they are otherwise physically unable to defend themselves, be it due to disability (for example, I have an acquaintance who is wheelchair-bound, but is always packing a concealed handgun), age (many seniors packing these days) or other reasons ...

I do think that with the decision to carry a concealed handgun comes the responsibility to acquire training, not limited to use of the firearm. All those who carry -- who are physically capable -- should at a minimum get training in use of deadly force (principles, theory and laws), weapon retention, methods of accessing the handgun during a physical confrontation and some basic forms of self-defense.
 
I studied traditional martial arts for a couple of years until the UFC first became popular. Since then, I've been focusing more on fighting methods than martial arts. The best workouts now are a combination of striking plus ground and pound sparring with a buddy who did a little full contact competition for a while. Grappling is what most fights resort to so I highly suggest it to anyone but especially the small-statured or weak. It truly shows technique can best strength.
 
I studied Aikido and Ju-Jitsu for several years. One thing I learned is that if you do not regularly train for it, you'll lose it (but then this applies to firearms as well). Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate a decent dojo in my area, and the ones I've seen tend to be schemes that are run by people interested in making money through selling the mystique of martial arts instead of actually teaching people how to fight.
 
I'd say you should know how to handle yourself in a physical fight. Hence, I study Krav Maga.
An excellent system. What I like about Krav Maga is the stress placed on disarming armed attackers and fighting your way out of multiple-attacker situations. A practical art that actually includes firearms!
 
Yup, many many years of training in the ultimate martial art for self-defence, nike-do. :neener:
 
Tallpine,

Your comments reminded me of the old Monty Python bit with the knights..."It's just a scratch...come here and I'll bite yer knees off!" or something like that.

Cookekdjr

Krav Maga is excellent stuff, I only wish there was a qualified instructor in my area as I've only been able to attend one seminar.

Old Dog

You are of course correct about those who carry because of infirmity. I guess my point is as others mentioned in their posts, self defense should be considered as a "complete package". Awareness of your environment, carrying yourself with confidence, being able to protect yourself in both an armed and unarmed way to the best of your physical abilities and the proper mindset are all a part of staying safe on the streets. Avoidence is the best self defense. If you have found yourself in a confrontation on the street you have probably failed in the primary task of awareness. The ancient an honorable techniques of "Nike-Do" may be your first line of defense if available. If not you should know at least the basics of self defense in the upright position and at a distance, upright position and in contact, and on the ground grappling with your opponent. Hand to hand combat tends to progress (digress) through that spectrum.

As a follow on question, those that have studied Krav Maga and other types of self defense that include unarmed defenses against armed opponents...how effective do you think those techniques would be in the real world? Are you confident enough in your skills to attempt them against an armed opponent? Do you think you would have a choice? Also, if armed yourself what would you do to prevent having your firearm taken from you by similar methods and do you think your training would help you prevent such techniques being used on you?
 

I studied Aikido and Ju-Jitsu for several years. One thing I learned is that if you do not regularly train for it, you'll lose it (but then this applies to firearms as well). Its like riding a bike or swimming though. You get rusty, but if you spent a week on the mats your technique would hop right back up. Your brain remembers how to do the movements, if your balance is still similar (i.e., you don't have a new gut or something) you should bounce back quick. I studied BJJ, I have attended some seminars by Rickson Gracie, my teacher was a student of his.

Grappling is what most fights resort to so I highly suggest it to anyone but especially the small-statured or weak. It truly shows technique can best strength. I think that these folks are who need the grappling training the most. They are the ones who are gonna get thrown to the ground in the opening seconds of any fight. Knowing how to land so you can utilize your guard and how to quickly submit someone from the guard (before he can knock you out) is utterly important for little guys. Also, they usually take to BJJ quickly, as they have lower centers of gravity, and usually better balance.
 
....I believe it's important to remember the reason many people carry a firearm is because they are otherwise physically unable to defend themselves
Click to expand...

6' 2" 220lbs, Black Belt Tae Kwon Do and high school wrestler. I learned to shoot when I was young but I never felt the need to own my own weapons until my daughter was born, and then 9/11 happened 3 months later. I've been accumulating an "assortment" of weapons ever since.

So, I guess I started carrying when I was responsible for others that could not defend themselves.
 
agatsu

I'd say that self defense in an unarmed capacity is of paramount importance to one carrying a gun for self defense.
I've studied wrestling, aikido, and TKD since I was a youngster. I hope to continue Aikido until I'm a dead man.
And, I'll continue to carry a gun as long as I can.
 
Grappling is what most fights resort to...
Click to expand...

If you're out numbered and you go to the ground, you're screwed. You need to be able to fight standing up, too.
 
Fighting on the ground is the last place you want to be, unfortunately many systems are teaching that as the primary place you take the fight. Wrestling and BJJ are generally sports, and in those sports there are only 2 people, it's on an even and flat surface, and there are rules. The problem is when someone tries to wrestle or grapple in a fight and while he's spending all that time trying to overcome the other's strength the opponent's buddy comes in from behind with a knife in his back.

The main goal of groundfighting should be getting back on your feet.

To answer the origimal question, unarmed self-defense can even be of far greater importance than armed self-defense. You might not always carry a gun but you can always know how to handle yourself. You might not want to use lethal force, unarmed skill allows you the option of using a level in between nothing and lethal force. Unarmed skill, if learned properly, will enhanse your ability to fight with weapons.
 
Excellent replies and discussion here. Getting back to your feet and away from your opponent is almost always a laudable goal. Particularly if you have more than one opponent as mentioned before. The grappling arts have gained much desireability because they are what seems to win the "no holds barred" arena fighting we are seeing on tv these days. Unfortunately if this is all you know and you are confronted with two opponents you are in a world of hurt. If however you get taken down by an experienced ground fighter and all you have ever done is fight on your feet you are also in trouble. Focusing on one style to become truely proficient is a very worthwhile endevour, if you are interested in self defense however you should at least know enough of the other styles to get yourself back to your core strength if you are forced into a confrontation on unfamiliar ground.

Conditioning is another issue. Any fight that goes on for more than a minute requires a substantial amount of stamina to survive. Of course you don't have to have more stamina than an Olympic boxer...just more stamina than the thug trying to take you apart.

Roland,

Your point is well taken. If you have been trained in a martial art it isn't hard to get back up to speed with a little practice...however if you find yourself fighting for your life on the street you won't be given sufficient warning to train up for the event and your conditioning won't be there either. If you take self defense seriously you must train continuously. Besides, getting back into shape after being away from the conditioning after a while is such a pain in the a$$. Particularly for those of us who have been around for several decades.
 
I have no problems with the guys that want to fight it out mano a mano but just a couple of points :

"...or you may be attacked without sufficient warning to get to your firearm"

In this case you are not paying attention to your surroundings, learn to watch everything going on around you.

"...just more stamina than the thug trying to take you apart"

Not much chance of that if you're old, bad knees, arthritic hips, etc. etc. The vast majority of Americans wouldn't last 15 seconds in a fight with 2 or 3 street thugs, myself included. That's why I carry.
 
I dunno. A few of the best fighters I've seen, and I'm not talking about ultimate fight championship, but real life drag out, knock down fighting have never spent a moment in or a dime on a dojo. Then again these people who I've see, are wired a little different than an average person. They move in fast and overwhelm their oponent with no regard to their own well being, and nearly always come out on top.
 
Short if hitting the gym/dojo 3 times a week what can someone do to work on their unarmed skills? Short courses that could give a foundation? Books/videos? I'm very interested in this but am kinda scattered in my routine so it needs to fit my schedule.

I understand you can't get everything in 2 days but if it could give me a base it would be great. Kinda like a pistol class gotta do your dry work at home for it to stick.
 
If you want my advice I would suggest you keep your eyes open for some Krav Maga training. It focuses on teaching simple effective techniques that can be learned quickly. Physical conditioning as well as a warrior mindset can also get you a long way. Bottom line though, like anything else...no pain no gain. If you don't put the time and sweat in you won't get the results.
 
I remember in army basic, the times we spent on bayonette drills and hand to hand. The most important thing I learned in those courses was that mindset is top priority. You must want to survive more than your opponent - this means being raging angry at him for trying to take you out, and focusing that energy back his way.

As for technique, the martial arts I learned (and continue to practice) have been great. They don't have a cool Asian name though. I guess I'd call it "break the other guy's arm and bust out his kneecap before he does comparable damage to you-fu."
 
The main goal of groundfighting should be getting back on your feet.
So that you can:
a) run away; or
b) reach your firearm
 
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