Just how BAD is the 30/30 ?

[wraco]

The 30 WCF is a great cartridge, when used within it's limitations. Chambered in lever action rifles, they make good saddle guns or an easy carry in thick brush. I use a Winchester 1894 Rifle (1902) for a saddle gun and pre-war carbine (1939) for thick brush, when on foot. Shots are under 100 yards and that's where I keep them. But most of the time I use a 30-06 or 300 H&H, as most shots end up over 100 yards.

Regards:
Rod

 

[TCB in TN]

The only reason I dont use .30-30 is because my favorite rifle happens to be chambered in .30-06. In my opinion, fit and feel of a rifle is more important than the caliber (within reason).

One of the most true statements I have heard in some time. I would just add that in addition to fit, and feel, I would add a 3rd f. Familiar! The more familiar you are, the more you practice with your rifle the more likely you will be to be accurate with your weapon of choice.

 

[unreal45]

The 30-30 has a near perfect match of caliber and velocity that just plain works for short range, medium sized game.

 

[JohnBT]

.30-30 is great.

.35 Rem is better. .32 Special will do.

 

[paintballdude902]

i have killed more deer with my marlin 30aw in .30-30 than any other gun

oh yeah guys i shot my first two deer this year with my model 30aw

 

[Z_Infidel]

Okay, this thread got my attention because I've been contemplating moving up from my 336XLR to either a 308MX or a 444. I also have a 336C .30-30 I will probably start loading with 125 gr hollow points but I consider the XLR my primary hunting rifle. So now I'm wondering, at distances within 150 yards what really is the difference in killing power between the above cartridges? The .30-30 and 308 LeverEvolution bullets are both .30 caliber and have similar construction, the 308 is just moving at higher velocity. At 150 yards will there be any difference in performance? What about on somewhat thicker skinned game than a white tail? Will the additional velocity of the 308 then make a meaningful difference? Better penetration in heavy tissue/bone? Will a 444 with its larger, heavier, but slower bullet kill more effectively at the same range than the .30-30 / 308?

The reason I mention 150 yards max is because I prefer iron sights on a levergun and I consider that my limit for taking a shot at an animal. I realize the 308 will shoot flatter and further than the .30-30.

 

[scrat]

Some members are smoking crack again. i have put thousands of rounds through my 30-30. I know a lot of others who have also. No inocent bystanders were ever hurt or killed. I know of no person ever killed as a bystander or onlooker of someone shooting a 30-30. Thanks for the misinformation ED.


Now as far as trajectory and theorys. thats just it its theorys. I have successfully shot steel plates at 100 yrds easy, 200 yrds ok, 300 yrds, my son can do i cant consitantly. Now whats the difference. im a serious shooter. Not a go to wallymart buy the bullets to go shooting. i cast my own bullets. i also buy bullets. I Use different types of powders, lubes techniques. Basicly i make my ammo. I can make my ammo better than factory grade ammo. My ammo is case fireformed. Not SAMI specs.


NOW again like most other knowledgeable people know. The 30-30 has taken down more deer and medium sized game more than any other rifle in the world. The only rifle that comes close to this is the 30-06. For a rifle and caliber that was designed in 1885 this caliber is and has been in the top 10 calibers sold in the united states for over 30 years. So go make som folgers and start smelling the coffee.

 

[qajaq59]

The hogs that I point my 30-30 at seem to think it's BAD!!!! They also just fall over dead after I move my finger a little.

 

[Twud]

Very impressive thesis Shawnee. I'ts obvious you put a lot of time into it.
I inherted a 336 in 35 Remington. Inside 100 yards it does a number on deer. I enjoy shooting it especially in the thick stuff. However, if there's the least possibility of a shot presenting it self over 100 yards out to 400 yards the 257Wby. is coming out.
I think your study assumes that we can hold a rifle perfectly still, which I don't think many of us can. I know I can't, at least not without a really good field rest, which I always look for.

 

[TreyNC]

Way to go to bat for the old girl Shawnee!! I think the 30-30 is out of favor in some groups for several reasons, I stepped up from the 30-30 like so many when I was younger because every one wants the more more more, not enough enough enough. Also one guy starts mouthing off about how poor the proformance and how his is soooo superior and some idiot is going to listen (me included). Every deer I have killed with mine, including my first had full pass through, maybe they were good shots. I have killed just as many deer with my 30-06 and had a couple with no exit, maybe I just like to shoot at bone?

Dakotasin,
Just a thought which you have probably already considered, it sounds like you are re-loading your 30-30? If so sound like a possible primer problem, either not seated enough (most likely) or too hard. Just my .02

 

[Geno]

Cool thread! Thanks. Well, I will say this:

T/C Arms' Encore, pistol or rifle
T/C Arms' Contender, pistol or rifle
Winchester Model 94

Pick your poison. It remains a fact that the lowly .30-30 has killed more deer than any other cartridge. My view as to one of life most entertaining, yet effective firearms...the Contender pistol in .30-30. Wow, that's fun, and cheap to shoot. By the way, T/C Arms has an MOA accuracy guarantee. Yeaup.

 

[ArmyAviator]

O.S.O.K. made the following comment: "The lever action is not any more unsafe than any other type of action"

Hmm. My gun cabinets and vault contain an impressive # of bolt actions and semi-autos; ALL of mine (Browning, REM, WIN) have means of being placed to safe PRIOR to chambering a round. My one lever action(WIN model 94), details below, does not; make the move to chamber the round and as your hand closes the last part of that "stroke"....brother O.S.O.K., that hammer is back and that snake is set to strike. One of the other fine senior members herein states that the most important gun safety there is, is between our ears. I heartily concur. However, I've seen lotsa young hunters (teenagers) with same WIN model 94 and remain certain that most have insufficient training and practice at handling the lowering of that WIN hammer.

Old wives tale? Nope.

Actual stastics? "Statistics are the poorest substitute for judgment." --Henry Clay

My beloved WIN Model 94 "thuddy-thuddy" was bought for me by my Dad, for $74, in 1977. I still have it; most regretfully, I do not still have him.

Happy New Year, Sir.

--Bryant

 

[litman252]

I agree that specific training is needed with any exposed hammer gun. 2 years ago a member of my hunting party took his toe off with a .308 contender handgun.
Muzzle should not cover one's self when lowering hammer, with any gun!!

I have a '94 with a 5D receiver peep. One of my easier shooting deer rifles.

Tony

 

[SSN Vet]

O.K. I'll bite....

the technical has been covered......

here's the non-technical.....

1. lever guns are fun to run......
2. lever guns are "cool"....(just ask any cowboy)....
3. My Marlin 336 is far more accurate than I am..........
4. lever guns make me happy..............

 

[TheShootist1894]

Wow. . . .

The 30-30 or 30 WCF has probably killed more deer than old age since man set foot on American soil. . . .. this seems like a silly question, if you doubt it go buy a 338 and have no worries, other than all the meat you just blew to hell. . . .:banghead:

Just my 3 cents, G'Day!

 

[MCgunner]

Now as far as trajectory and theorys. thats just it its theorys. I have successfully shot steel plates at 100 yrds easy, 200 yrds ok, 300 yrds, my son can do i cant consitantly.

I gotta be a bit of a nay sayer (I still like the .30-30) on that one. Trajectories aren't theory, they're real. My PBR for my .308 is 273 yards. That means to almost 300 yards, I just hold the crosshairs on the shoulder and squeeze, 300 a little high on the shoulder. The .30-30 cannot do that. My little .308 is has shot a 3/4" 5 shot group, though more often than not it's more like 1 MOA. Now, my Savage 340 would do that even with cheap factory ammo, but most lever guns won't. That's not trajectory, though, that's accuracy. But, for long range shooting, if you live west of the Balcones Escarpment in Texas, you might think about moving out of .30-30 land. However, if you have an accurate one, the new leverlution gives the old round a little more equity.

Another thing to consider with long range shooting on game is energy. No, it's not theory either, it's real. The .308 is pushing 1400 ft lbs at a full 400 yards. My .30-30 shoots the same nosler 150 grain bullet as my .308. Okay, it's out of a 12" barrel, so give a cuple hundred more ft lbs for a rifle, but it starts out at 2050 fps 1308 ft lbs AT THE MUZZLE. It drops below 1000 ft lbs (the mythical minimum for deer) by 200 yards.

So long as the range is under 200 yards, the deer really doesn't know the difference, honest. But, lets don't get too carried away, here, LOL! If I need more than PERHAPS (with leverlution) 300 yards range on deer, more like 250 really, I'll pick something else. I very rarely need more, though. That's the catch. It's only when I travel west that I feel the need for more and even then I could get by with the .30-30 I think, with the new leverlution. I've seen folks hunting in New Mexico with nothing more than an iron sighted 94. It can still be done, just gotta pass on shots a little before you would with your .300 mag or .30-06.

 

[plumberroy]

However, if there's the least possibility of a shot presenting it self over 100 yards out to 400 yards the 257Wby. is coming out.

I've shot deer out to 425 yards (Warning:::I'm gonna upset some people with this statment) beyond 100-125 It ain't hunting,it is just shooting. back when people could only afford one gun you could buy 30wcf trapper loads 110-120 grain bullet at 1000-1200 fps lead or fmj A reloader could do all rifle hinting ( not that you would want to)with a 30-30 cast 113-120 grain bullet at 1200 fps do less damage to small game than hyper velocity 22's to 170 grainer that will take a moose if you get close I went through the got to have the biggest, fastest, hardest kicking,gun out there phase Now that I'm A little older I've settled on two hunting rifles .A N.E.F. 45-70. N.E.F./H&R just seem to fit me better than any rifle out there and a old H&R 157 in 30-30 ackley,
It was all ready ackley improved when I got it these guns will do anything I need to do
Roy

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

and if you're dropping a levergun on the hammer hard enough to break through the half-cock notch and accelerate the inertial firing pin with the muzzle pointed at your person, then you're probably not long for this world, anyway.

The OP makes some excellent points - most game is taken at short yardage - the trajectory and energy of the .30-30 is plenty for 99% of hunting situations, scope or no scope (I like scopes). If you're out in Nevada, or other dry, plains-ey country where you can see a long ways, you just might get the long shot, however.

 

[GCW5]

I've killed assorted critters with a 30/30, from rats & pigons to feral dogs to deer. I've also used other calibers, but a 30/30 kills just as dead. I don't ever recall any shots over 125 steps or so, I prefur a .270 if I'm shooting very far.

I think the only safety problem with 30/30's I've really ever encountered is that tubular magazines seem to be very dificult for those not familuar with them, to make sure the rifle is unloaded. I've really had to overhall several guys over the years that "thought it was empty" when there was still a round or 2 in the magazine. I know that it's a lot easier to pull a mag or drop a floor plate to empty a magazine than it it to lever them all through the action, then check visually, but it's what you have to do.

 

[MCgunner]

People do need to realize not all of America looks like the woods around their home in Georgia or Pennsylvania or somewhere east. I have taken game just shy of 400 yards. It is done and it is hunting. Some folks out on the plains extend that a lot, they get into shooting. But, hey, shooting or hunting, they bag game. It's how they like to do it, can't argue with it even if I ain't into it and I would consider it too risky for my long range skills or lack there of. If they have the skills and the place to practice them (my gun club range has a max 200 yard backstop, don't get any practice over 300 yards), more power to 'em. They need more than a .30-30 to do the kind of shooting they do. That's why there is more than one caliber available....okay...I know, and marketing.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi MCGunner...

You're right, of course. There are places like West Texas or Eastern Colorado, N. Dakota etc. where people can and do a lot of long-distance gametaking.
But I humbly submit that short shots are not just in the East - not by any stretch of the imagination. Go look at the Black Hills or the coulees in Kansas or anywhere in Oklahoma east or north of Oklahoma City, or at the Rockies, or anywhere along the Platte clear across Nebraska or the high desert or Idaho. Even in "wide open Wyoming" I was just on a trail ride from 6000 to 8000 ft. and saw probably 40 Mulies and not a one of them more than 75 yards away.
There isn't a state in the Union where bowhunters don't take a trainload of deer and that tells me the old apple sauce about the "Thutty-Thutty" being an "Eastern" gun and Westerners needing rifles that shoot to 600 yards is mostly just "wind n the willows".

 

[MCgunner]

Oh, I know, but I like having the ability when I'm out west. I've hunted west Texas out on the desert quite a bit, had a great lease out there in a hunting club I was in, 13,000 acres. My longest shot there was about 150 yards. I took one mule deer in New Mexico with a 7 mag across a canyon right at 370 yards, my longest ever shot on anything other than coyote. IN MY LIFETIME of hunting, 90 percent of my deer have been under 150 yards. Still, out on the desert, why carry a .30-30 when I can get a couple hundred more yards out of my .308 IF I need it.

If I never expected to hunt anywhere else, but my place in Calhoun County, Texas, I could sell all my rifles and buy a Marlin 336, I mean, not that I WOULD do that, you nuts? LOL! If I'm armed with a rifle, it's normally a .308 now days, a good caliber in brush in a handy little 6.5 lb bolt gun that's quick to the shoulder, handy 20" barrel length, and 1 MOA capable. I don't really wanna trade it for a 336. That don't mean I don't appreciate the 336 as a superb deer rifle. I just like my stainless Remington.

 

[ArmedBear]

Bummer that Remington quit making that model and replaced it with a $1000 gimmick gun.

 

[jaholder1971]

I'm trying to figure out who said the .30/30 was bad?

[sarcasm]
Well, it must be: Winchester quit making the Model 94 and there's been an effort to buy up all the available ones or at least keep the prices high to keep folks (like me) from owning an affordable one.
[/sarcasm]

 

[Rokman]

I shot my first deer when I was 12 with an open-sighted Marlin .30-30. It will do what you need at a reasonable range.