just how effective is OC?

[icebones]

my expirences in BMT made me wonder just how effective OC and other defensive sprays are. ive been accidently sprayed with pepperspray in a nightclub (caught in the side of the face by a security gaurd, he wasnt aiming for me, the two idiots next to me trying to start a fight) still the stuff got into my left eye (with contacts in) i was very agitated...

at one point we were dected out in full MOPP 4 gear. NBC suit, protective mask and all (cool as hell i might add)

we were gathered in a gas chamber and an instructor (also wearing gear) opened a few capsules of OC, then we did jumpin jacks and ran in place.
The instructor then said to take off the mask breathe in and say our reporting statement.

well OK, i said. i loosened the hood around the mask, and felt a warming sensation around my neck, kinda like a mild sunburn. then removed the mask, the OC burned my eyes, nose and mouth, but it wasnt really that bad. i could still see (although my eyes watered a bit) and my nose started to run.

then i though "well is someone hits me with this stuff its not gonna stop me" if anything, its just gonna piss me off. same deal with pepper spray, it just burns like hell, but if i can take it, whats is this stuff gonna do to some bad guy on drugs? or a hardened criminal?

i know the air force does not do it, but i believe the marine corps are actually trained to fight after being hit with OC

 

[Mp7]

Interesting Post.

What is the difference between OC and Pepperspray?

I like to carry my Pepperspray in my jacket - just to have
a 1st Response Surprise for a BG (- the second response
will an elbow-strike.)

Would be good to actually hear exp from more people
who used it and got hit with it.

 

[JT in VA]

Pepperspray is just a more common term for OC (oleoresin capsicum) spray. You may sometimes hear to it referred to by a brand name such as Cap-Stun.

Concerning effectiveness, that can be hard to define as it is made in different strengths.

I have been sprayed directly in the face during training and indirectly while working (i.e. inhaled same sprayed on another while in small room).

The direct spray hurt. Eyes burn, lungs hurt, and you bend over involuntarily. It is an effective product for a less than lethal attack. Many variables exist such as drug or alcohol use, wearing glasses, mental illness, or just plain meanness - thus it is not 100% effective on 100% of people. You also have to watch the wind and other cross contamination issues -i.e. if you are a LEO subdueing a stalking ex-husband in a grade school lobby don't spray the stuff.

OC spray is a good tool and can come in handy but is not a substitute for a gun and should not be relied on to stop a potentially lethal attack.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Are you SURE is was OC and not CN or CS gas? I've been in many gas chamber in the military and I can tell you it was a WHOLE new world when they introduced the OC. But remember even them it is just a small percentage of OC. Let someone spray you with 5% or 10% OC Spray and you will quickly lose any doubts about whether or not its effective. The problem with OC sprays are that if someone is attacking me I doubt you would be able spray them without spraying yourself which would hinder your escape or ability to fight back. OC is OK if you can get them at a distance BEFORE they attack you. Not very good for fending off an attack. Also if you use it indoors you will likely get yourself pretty well and any bystanders as well. If your outside I hope the wind is blowing the right direction. There are a lot of factors that make me less than a fan of OC for self defense. I prefer people learn to use you hand and feet to fight or escape than to rely on OC.

BTW. I've worked in the prison system for the last 12 years. We use a lot of OC spray. It takes a LOT of fight out of people. It if hits them in the face it usually takes ALL of the fight out of them.
But WE wear gas masks because it does get on you too.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Yep. And, getting hit with the foam is downright unpleasant because you can't just do the "hold your arms out and walk around" drill.
It's there til you get hosed off.

Percentage is everything with that stuff.

 

[hso]

Plenty of threads about OC/Pepperspray previously posted and the reactions to exposure have ranged from totally incapacitating to "you can fight through it".

 

[GregGry]

As part of my police training I had to make contact with a "suspect" which resulted in being sprayed in the face with pepper spray (18%). I then had to knee strike/take down an instructor who came at me (he was wearing protective gear). After that I walked "briskly" over (with other instructors pulling me for some reason) to a man sized target at approx 14 feet away, and I had to shoot until the instructors told me to stop (7 rounds in a 4 inch circle, not bad ). To finish it off I had to radio dispatch about what just happened.

This is what I learned:

First off, Pepper spray's effects are completely subjective. Prior to being sprayed numerous of my friends told me that you would be completely unable to keep your eyes open after being sprayed. They also said it was absolutely horrible.

In my situation pepper spray was completely ineffective. After seeing a video tape of myself, I noticed that I initially did a shrug of my head (Maybe in a sub conscience attempt to shake it off) but other then that you would have no idea what happened. I went into the situation with absolute certainty that I was going to keep my eyes open the entire time. I did close them initially (I heard you couldn't open them after closing them for the first time) but after that I had them open. The pain wasn't anywhere near what people made it out to be. I did have a rather nasty taste in my mouth (Identical to the taste found in many really hot hot sauces). After 15 minutes the pain started to get a bit worse in my left eye because some of the spray ran into the corner of my eye. The bright sunny day outside really didn't help either.

I found out how effective it can be against some people. I ended up going back and helping other class mates through it (Directing them to water and a fan). Many of them were crying and almost 100% incapacitated. All of them fought through the same scenario I did however, which proves your still capable of a lot even after a direct spray to the face. Overall I would say that pepper spray is effective in 80 to 85 percent of cases that its used properly, in my experience.

What to expect if your sprayed:

Initially you will feel a rush of heat. Followed by a sharp pain (Similar to a sun burn). Standing in front of a fan eliminates the pain almost 100% from what I hear, I can vouch that the wind from running a bit helps a lot. Water does almost nothing. Expect lots of snot, in quantities you would think are impossible. This is good because the snot will cool you face. The effects will last around 30 to 50 minutes. The sun will hurt bad, much like a sunburn. I never touched my eyes, which might have been why I fared well. I say many people rubbing their eyes, which could certainly have caused issues.

You can fight through it, and yes you can keep your eyes open (Again I did, however most people in my class couldn't, they had to hold their eyes open to take shots). Pepper spray should never be used if a deadly force situation is present, unless its your only option.

EDIT: To ad a bit of information:

Most of the people I have talked to say that it would be hard for them to fight not so much due to the pain, but because they couldn't see anything (Aka couldn't keep their eyes open). In my case since I could see 100% (Minus the fact I didn't have my contacts in which obviously affected m vision) that wouldn't be an issue thus I (and anyone else that could keep their eyes open) would still be a significant threat.

 

[brent376]

Try fox labs 5.3

 

[mercop]

OC spray to too full of variables to have any place in my personal protection plan.