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SoDak.308

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I’ve been looking at different schools and I think I’ve settled on Trinidad summer certificate. I think I could get the certificate and all the specialty classes I’d like to do in two summers.

I’ve experienced and zero tools. I’d like to get good enough on my own and build some demos that shoot well to try and entice my friend into changing his ffl to a 07 and bringing me in the shop.

how much of a start up am I looking at here? I think I could go up to 5k for a lathe but the rest of the tools I’ve no idea.
 
I use my mill a lot more than my lathe, doing 1911 work. What ever you get you will need a long enough bed to handle any barrel length you will work on, this includes clearances needed for holding and cutting to end of barrel. The larger you get the less time you spend on re-zeroing after your had to move it. Also you want a min of 1.625" opening in the head to pass parts into, which is a min MT#5.

fyi. The lathe will be the cheap part. It's all the tooling and bits that add up costing more in the long run.
 
Im running a grizzly 12x36 gunsmithing lathe and mill combo machine. Its a solid machine for about 5k. Figure in about 10-20% more for tooling. Skip the HSS lathe tools and go straight to carbide insert tooling. Your cutting times will be faster and finishes will be better. Save the HSS for special one-off tools. Then figure another 1000 for entry level measuring tools. I have a pretty decent collection of Starrett tools and have about 5k in them.

Grizzly has decent tooling. I buy most of mine from MSCdirect though.
 
Go to Brownell's and start pricing hand tools. Books. Brownell's, J.B wood's series, Kuhnhausen, TM's (AR, 1911, etc) Gun-specific tools, ultrasonic tank, bluing tanks, as suggested above get the mill first. A good standing drill press is a must also, you'll use it for things you don't want to set the mill up for.

I've priced out my "won the lottery" shop and equipment a couple times; upwards of half a mil, but that's building and CNC.
 
Could your friend with the shop use some of your part-time help doing some of the scut work in exchange for the lathe time you need to learn how to use it?
 
And not one of those combo units where the mini mill is part of a mini lathe.

I whole heartedly agree. If a machine doesnt weigh 1000lbs, its probably a piece of junk. Ive used the small benchtop chinese junk and haas and mazak cnc and 8-16" southbend and clausing lathes.

My grizzly combo unit is about 1500 lbs. 12x36 gearhead lathe and a 3/4hp gearhead vertical mill. Here it is.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Gr...MIjYqap5iC7AIVw8DACh1nbQ2BEAAYASAAEgJl0fD_BwE

No, its not a classic south bend or bridgeport, but it holds good tolerances. Its great for a hobbyist to a journeyman machinist.
 
I have the Grizzly G4003G Gunsmith lathe., ~1200 lbs. I find it's a little short on bend length when I'm taking a barrel from blank. I've had minor problems with it from day 1, which was expected coming from china. I've made special jigs to give me almost full bed length access.

My endmill is Grizzly G0667x which is variable speed induction motor setup to run on 220 1 phase, ~2400lbs. It's been very good and trouble free. I have DRO-Pro's DRO's on both machines. 1 micron on the lathe and 5 micro on the mill since I wanted the graphical interface. Finding things second hand can and will save you some money. But you may have to spend some money doing repairs and upgrades. Tooling for the Mill can really cost, considering a good 1/2" carbide endmill runs around $100 ea. Not counting vices, clamps, fixtures needed to hold parts.

I do alot of stainless work. I use carbide for roughing but I get a much better finish using cobalt for my final cuts. Cobalt will cut stainless really good but will not handle the higher loads and feed rate as carbide does. So you have to back the feed down with cobalt.
 
I’ve been talking to some of my old gun smiths. One of them brought up working as a contractor but he had no idea how that would work lol. He also brought up that if the shop sold customers receivers they could come to me as a sub contractor smith to “gunsmith” put their receivers and barrels together.
 
I have the Grizzly G4003G Gunsmith lathe., ~1200 lbs. I find it's a little short on bend length when I'm taking a barrel from blank. I've had minor problems with it from day 1, which was expected coming from china. I've made special jigs to give me almost full bed length access.

My endmill is Grizzly G0667x which is variable speed induction motor setup to run on 220 1 phase, ~2400lbs. It's been very good and trouble free. I have DRO-Pro's DRO's on both machines. 1 micron on the lathe and 5 micro on the mill since I wanted the graphical interface. Finding things second hand can and will save you some money. But you may have to spend some money doing repairs and upgrades. Tooling for the Mill can really cost, considering a good 1/2" carbide endmill runs around $100 ea. Not counting vices, clamps, fixtures needed to hold parts.

I do alot of stainless work. I use carbide for roughing but I get a much better finish using cobalt for my final cuts. Cobalt will cut stainless really good but will not handle the higher loads and feed rate as carbide does. So you have to back the feed down with cobalt.

I think thats the lathe only model of what I have. It is from Taiwan which is a smidge better... I have yet to use the mill portion, as when i was breaking it in, something sheared in the head and the spindle stopped. Im guessing a pin snapped on a shaft.

The lathe portion has not had a hiccup yet, aside from one base bolt head top shearing off like a flaky biscuit. Ive done some heat sinks on it going half inch deep with a parting tool. Ive done left handed internal threads and the external to match. Im quite pleased with it.

I do see your point about the too short bed. 40 would be real nice
 
I’ve been looking at different schools and I think I’ve settled on Trinidad summer certificate. I think I could get the certificate and all the specialty classes I’d like to do in two summers.

I’ve experienced and zero tools. I’d like to get good enough on my own and build some demos that shoot well to try and entice my friend into changing his ffl to a 07 and bringing me in the shop.

how much of a start up am I looking at here? I think I could go up to 5k for a lathe but the rest of the tools I’ve no idea.

It all depends on what you plan to start doing at first. What do you mean by, "I've experienced and zero tools?" . Do you know what to do with a metal lathe, or milling machine? Have you had hands-on training in the use of that machinery?
A good metal lathe will not require the multitude of fixtures, collets, vise, indexing fixtures and clamping tools that a milling machine requires for all-around work. The various types and style of endmills, circular saw blades are very handy. And for precision drilling and tapping, you'll need the tools to do that sort of work.
For a lathe, I'd recommend at least a 10X40 if you plan to do barrel work. A lathe with at least a 2" spindle bore will provide clearance for most all the work you probably will need to do. Also, look for a low end spindle speed, like 50 RPM, so you can do threading on barrel shanks and barrel front ends for muzzle brakes and/or suppressors.
$5,000.00 is just a starting point to get all the machinery required for much of the work to be done. Then, you're gonna need some expensive measuring equipment and DON'T settle for cheap micrometers and callipers.
I was fortunate enough to go through a four year toolmaker apprenticeship. School during the day, working second shift. The manual machine training I received was very thorough at that time, and in my case, was invaluable and strictly watched over. This was in the late 60's early 70's, by several gentlemen schooled and trained in a few European countries. The owner of the company I worked for was quite a hunter and had more firearms than any of the local shops did. All repairs/modifications on his guns were done in our toolroom, and we were too scared to not get it done right.
 
It all depends on what you plan to start doing at first. What do you mean by, "I've experienced and zero tools?" . Do you know what to do with a metal lathe, or milling machine? Have you had hands-on training in the use of that machinery?
A good metal lathe will not require the multitude of fixtures, collets, vise, indexing fixtures and clamping tools that a milling machine requires for all-around work. The various types and style of endmills, circular saw blades are very handy. And for precision drilling and tapping, you'll need the tools to do that sort of work.
For a lathe, I'd recommend at least a 10X40 if you plan to do barrel work. A lathe with at least a 2" spindle bore will provide clearance for most all the work you probably will need to do. Also, look for a low end spindle speed, like 50 RPM, so you can do threading on barrel shanks and barrel front ends for muzzle brakes and/or suppressors.
$5,000.00 is just a starting point to get all the machinery required for much of the work to be done. Then, you're gonna need some expensive measuring equipment and DON'T settle for cheap micrometers and callipers.
I was fortunate enough to go through a four year toolmaker apprenticeship. School during the day, working second shift. The manual machine training I received was very thorough at that time, and in my case, was invaluable and strictly watched over. This was in the late 60's early 70's, by several gentlemen schooled and trained in a few European countries. The owner of the company I worked for was quite a hunter and had more firearms than any of the local shops did. All repairs/modifications on his guns were done in our toolroom, and we were too scared to not get it done right.


Sorry, typo. Little experience and own zero tools.

I’ve been thinking, I really think there is no other decent way other than to apprentice. There’s only one reputable commercial Smith in town “John Peterson”. All the gun shops I worked in we always referred people to him. There’s been a few pop up here and the at gun shops but no one stays. I assume they think their worth more than what the shops are paying. John is strictly a smith, he doesn’t do much retail. He takes 2 hours lunches and closes the shop lol. I gotta imagine he turns down a ton of work because he’s always inundated. I’ve never been in his shop and I e only heard good things about him other than his wait times are long.

I think I gotta come up with a way to convince him to let me apprentice him. I’ve got my army retirement so I’ve always been fine with ten bucks an hour. I could be available 20 hours a week. I plan on doing the nra summer gun smith school the next two years. I’ve got something to offer him right? He’s got to be in his sixties, I would think he wouldn’t have to be concerned with training some competition. By the time I could break out on my own and be reputable he’d be retired. Or maybe he’d consider selling to me when he’s ready to hit the trail? Am I thinking logically here?
 
Back when I considered gunsmith training, I found a couple schools that were pretty good. One in Tishimingo, OK, and one in Denver or Colo. Springs.

I ended up going to the local tech school for nachine tool. I was luck to have a great teacher who did nothing but machining since he got back from Vietnam. Marines make good teachers! 8hrs a day for 9 months. We started on the grinders, grinding our own lathe tool bits. Then we got to use the 1950s south bend 10" lathes (this was 2012). We learned the basics, then knurling, single point threading, boring, etc. Then we moved to the manual bridgeport and a bigger gearhead lathe. We made vises, parallel clamps, kan-t-wist clamps, and other things. I learned gear cutting, slitting, and rotary and horizontal milling, with and without a dividing head. Then we moved on to the CNC mill and writing G-code.

I bought many of my Starrett tools used on ebay and at estate sales. Then it all burned in a fire and I got new replacements.

Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, and Mitutoyo are the best measuing tools. Though anything USA made is usually quality.

Basic measuing tools-
0-1" and 1-2" micrometers
0-6" dial caliper with depth rod
6" straight rule
6"+ combination square
Small hole gages
Telescoping gages
Inside calipers, small and medium
Dial Indicator and magnetic base
Edge finder
Dial Test or Button Back indicator

Scribe
#0 and #2 center drill bits
Fratcional drills 1/64-1/2" by 64ths
Number drills 0-60 or 0-80
Letter drills
Drill point gage
60° Center finder

Taps and tap wrenches
Hammers, ball pein and copper/brass/plastic
Wrenches of normal sizes
Allen (Hex Key) wrenches
Gunsmith screwdrivers
Punches of varying shapes and material
Sandpaper, scotchbrite, and polishes
Bench blocks

And the list goes on and on and on... You'll never aquire every tool. But you can also make your own. Maybe the second project we did after gaining access to the mills was a t-handle tap wrench with interchangeable collets. I used that thing all the time. I still have and use the hammer I made with replaceable aluminum and hard rubber faces. And my final project, a stirling engine powered fan.
 
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