Just turned 21 and facing a dilemma

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kd7nqb

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So I just had my 21st birthday and am pretty excited about the new responsibility and privileges that will come once my CCW paperwork comes through. (Cant file the paperwork till Monday morning since my b-day was on the weekend)

Here is my dilemma, I am a college student on a tight budget and I was forced to take a solid week off unpaid from work last week due to a family emergency. Long story short my gun budget paid the price. (Landlord seems to think that rent comes before gun money). My "dream gun" that I have spent a lot of time shooting from the rental rack is a Springfield XD in .40s&w I like this gun ALOT. But am worried about the size and at the moment its out of my budget.

My buddy picked up a Kel-tec p3At a few months back and I have shot ~500 rounds through it and really find it as a very effective CCW choice, due to size.

But here are the questions that have come up.

1. I like the P3AT as a CCW but find it rather abrasive to shoot lots of rounds through due to the recoil and the overall "Fit and feel". Does the fact that its not a great target gun make it a bad CCW choice?

2. If I buy the Kel-Tec now it delays my XD purchase, is it better to get a it now and wait or by the XD first but not right now and then hopefully pick up the Kel-tec later?

3. Is the XD a concealable weapon? I like the gun a lot but am worried about how to best conceal that without a cover garment like a sport coat or other jacket. (Do Hawaiian style shirts provide enough cover)

For the record I plan to eventually own both firearms.
 
1. The gun that is the most comfortable to carry/easiest to conceal is rarely the enjoyable to shoot. Where that trade-off lies is up to you.

2. This is totally personal preference. If money is tight, I'd say you are better off buying one gun and spending the other money on ammo practicing with that one gun. If I were stuck with only one handgun, I'd probably give up some concealability for a more pleasant range gun, but that's because I enjoy shooting. Again, that's up to you.

3. Depending on who you ask, just about everything smaller than a breadbox is concealable. Lots of people conceal XD sized guns every day. Whether it works for you depends on your body type, your style of dress, the holster you get, where you plan to conceal it, and how dedicated you are to carrying the gun. Lighter and thinner guns require less adapation than thicker heavier guns.
 
1. I wouldn't call the P3AT a bad CCW choice, just a bad first pistol. Opinions will vary but I think it is worth the wait to get a good SHOOTING pistol first. Shooting handguns is hard, few people are "naturals," and skills are more perishable than we would like to think. If you don't enjoy, or at least tolerate, shooting, you won't be good at it. Also, if you are on a tight budget, I would shy away from .40S&W. 9mm or .38 Special would be a better choice, IMO.

2. See 1. I think buying the XD first would be best, unless you need a defensive pistol right NOW.

3. It is... maybe. Some people can make seemingly anything disappear under a t-shirt. I can't. Hawaiian shirts do usually cover things up pretty well but beware of strong breezes. Of course, most people pay no attention to their surroundings. If your handgun must stay concealed, this could be an issue.
 
So I like the idea of getting a shooting pistol first, as that is my main hobby. Also to add just a bit of info, even though I dont own handguns of my own I have been shooting actively with my fathers guns and friends guns for about 7yrs.

I guess my fear is buying the XD and discovering that its not practical to CCW it.

Anybody on this board regularly CCW a full size pistol IWB?


The final option is that all the cool readers on this board chip in and I buy both guns and a slew of leather to conceal it under any attire.
 
If you don't have the budget for a decent holster, the XD might not be a good choice. My solution would be a Smith and Wesson model 10. Good size, cheap ammo, and can be had for an easy $300.

Don't try that "young guy needs help buying a pistol" line. One of our resident Civil War veterans will come along and tell you about how he climbed three mountains and hacked the three tallest trees into firewood, just to get his first rifle. :D
 
I carry a HK USP compact quite often IWB. It's thicker than the XD and is about the same length as the XD 4" service model (XD may be a tad longer). You don't really need to worry about length quite as much as the height of the grip to the top of the slide. My HK USPc's height is about 5" I believe. The height and thickness are really what you should worry about. The hardest part of a semi to conceal is the grip IMO.

I also have an XD in 5" tactical size. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the 4" barrel compacet model. It has a shorter grip for CCW. The subcompact has same grip size as compact, minus 1" on the barrel.
 
Feel Yer Pain

I recently went through the CCW purchase thing.

I'm still not convinced my choice is the perfect one, but I have a special constraint: impaired grip on my strong hand due to knuckle damage on my third finger. Result: I can't get a really short grip that doesn't engage all four fingers.

I got a double-stack 9mm pistol. It's a little thick for concealment. I will probably figure something out, but once I got it home and started trying it out in various configurations, I concluded that a thinner pistol may well be in order.

I already have an XD-40 (4-inch barrel). I have also found it even harder to conceal.

You've already fired plenty of ammo through the P3AT, so that question has been answered.

I guess your next question is whether you need concealment or shootability more.

I can only tell you what I did. (The pattern will likely not be yours; I live in an open-carry state (Nevada) and I'm not a student.)

I got the XD-40 first, as I could use it for everything except CCW. I needed to learn to shoot a service calibre, and I needed something that could do nightstand duty.

I only shopped for a CCW piece after having spent a hundred hours or so at the range, and hundreds of rounds downrange.

I may still go through another pistol or three before I find a carry with which I'm happy.

YMMV.
 
If you're comfortable enough with the .380 cartridge that you would consider a p3at, but you want a good practice range gun as well.. I'd say look into a bersa thunder .380. You wont be spending any more more money than you would on the kel-tec ( even a bit less maybe ), which would allow you to save up for something bigger. And in the meanwhile you'd still have a gun thats decent on the range and easily iwb concealable too.
 
If you're comfortable enough with the .380 cartridge that you would consider a p3at, but you want a good practice range gun as well.. I'd say look into a bersa thunder .380. You wont be spending any more more money than you would on the kel-tec ( even a bit less maybe ), which would allow you to save up for something bigger. And in the meanwhile you'd still have a gun thats decent on the range and easily iwb concealable too.
Click to expand...

I have a Bersa Thunder and would recommend it. The downside to consider is that .380 ammo is $12+ per 50 rounds whereas 9mm is about $7. I don't get to shoot my bersa as much because of that. Might be different for you though.

Edit: I see you're going for a .40. .40 and .380 are similarly priced.
 
Can't answer your XD-40 questions as I've never even held one. I carry a full size 1911 Springfield Loaded as my CCW. Yes, a Hawaiian shirt will provide adequate cover with the proper belt and holster. I also carry a Keltec P3AT as a back up gun.

If for some reason I couldn't carry but one, the .380 would not be the caliber I'd choose to carry. I'd wait a bit longer, save up the money and get the .40 for CCW
 
I have so many choices for carry, but you asked if any one carries a full size.
98% of the time I carry a full size Colt 45 acp. I alter my clothing, as carrying enough gun is more important to me than what shirt I wear....
 
the kel tec is a perfect ccw pistol, reliable, safe, DA , very concealable. some weapons you strap on, and at the end of the day , you have adj. your pants 400 times, and you feel like you have worn a lead weight. A good CCW weapon is one you will allways carry, not one that makes you go, " God, that block again...". Also, chances are, if you are ever gonna use it, your range will be 10 yds or less, proly more like body length away, or arms length. So it does not have to be accurate, but it does have to be point and shoot, which it is.
 
oh yeah, get the keltec in 9mm, anyway, you don't want your CCW to be so small, as to you losing it, in your pants, when you want to grab it.
 
The only thing I can add is that you should NOT underestimate the cost finding 'leather' that is right for you. If you go for the more expensive XD you may find yourself buried under the costs of trying out different holsters/belts. This could put a major kink in your ability to CCW at all. The P3AT carries like a wallet in a $10 pocket holster.

As a compromise, you might think about a PF9. This way you get a slightly larger gun in a service caliber, but still retain %90 of the concealability of the P3AT. Also, you get the cheaper practice ammo as a bonus.

If having a god range pistol is more important, get the XD and delay the cost of good leather.

If CCW is more important, seriously think about the Kel-tecs and don't worry about leather at all. This way you have more cashola for practice, and you won't be set quite so far back in getting your second pistol (XD).


Thats how I would view the situation, anyway. YMMV :D


EDIT: rangerruck beat me while I was typing. :D He makes an excellent point, though. No matter what route you go, the Kel-tecs are going to be easier to carry. Another one of those annoying trade-offs. :) But, a fact of life all the same.
 
I have both XDs and a P3AT.

Get the XD.

The Keltec is a GREAT ccw gun, but it is horrible to shoot and no fun. I shoot mine just enough to keep it as reliable carry. A few magazies every 6 months..Its no target gun. I put 150 rounds through it when I bought it, found it reliable enough, did the "fluff and buff",, shot 20 more Corbons - and practically needed a bandage for my hand. just no fun.

Id go for an XD in 9mm - cheaper to shoot and pleny effective (despite the internet gossip)

better yet, go rent a Glock 26 - a great CCW gun and a great range gun with the extended mags..much better than an XD IMHO.

good luck!
 
A lot of ground has been covered, so I'll try to avoid repeating stuff...


I guess you need to decide what you want to use the gun for. If you want a carry gun and a carry gun ONLY, the P3AT would be a good choice. If you want a gun that you can also use as a house gun and shoot comfortably at the range, the XD starts to shine.

I bought a Glock 23 as my first handgun. It's a compact, polymer framed gun with a 4" barrel. Basically the half brother of the XD you are looking at (you didn't specify barrel length). If you are planning to do anything but CCW with your gun I would recommend looking at the XD. A bigger gun will be much more comfortable to shoot and user friendly. At the same time, they aren't hard to conceal either. Esp if you go with a compact frame. I've been carrying my Glock under a long T-shirt for four years now. I am tall and skinny though. If you are chunky around the mid section you may have a little more difficulty.

Two other thoughts...

One, SERIOUSLY consider getting a 9mm if you are on a budget. As much as I like my .40S&W today (and I do like it a great deal as a carry gun) I cussed myself for all the years I was in college and broke because it's noticeably more expensive than 9mm. A .380 will fall into the same price range. It will be much cheaper to do more shooting if you go with a 9mm. And with quality hollow points a 9mm is very capable carry gun. I would have no problem carrying one of my 9mms.

Two, you might consider the Fobus line of Kydex holsters. They were recommended to me shortly after I got my permit, when I was still a broke college student. For $20 you can purchase a very solid, durable holster. I bought the paddle holster and cant it slightly forward. It's been serving me well ever since I bought it and I still use the same one I bought four years ago. And the holster is so light that, combined with a polymer framed Glock, I hardly notice I'm carrying.


Finally, for due disclosure, I am now looking at a P3AT as a pocket carry gun. For situations where I'm wearing clothes that don't work with my Glock. Which is really just dressy occasions, since I don't wear suits. So I'm by no means trying to steer you away from the Keltec. I just think you might get more use out of the XD, esp range use.
 
1. I wouldn't call the P3AT a bad CCW choice, just a bad first pistol. Opinions will vary but I think it is worth the wait to get a good SHOOTING pistol first. Shooting handguns is hard, few people are "naturals," and skills are more perishable than we would like to think. If you don't enjoy, or at least tolerate, shooting, you won't be good at it. Also, if you are on a tight budget, I would shy away from .40S&W. 9mm or .38 Special would be a better choice, IMO.
Click to expand...

+1 - On all of the above. I don't think the KT would be a good ONLY gun for the time you're waiting for the next purchase.

Others have recommended the Bersa, and they 'split the middle' between good to shoot and good to conceal.

Have you considered a snubby revolver? A Smith 642 is pretty inexpensive and a lot of folks carry them in the pocket.
 
Get the kel-tec if that is what you can afford. It's been said before and will be said again, Kel-Tec's were designed as "use it when you need it" guns, not "take it to the range and put 300 rounds down it today" guns. You take the kel-tec with you to the range, put a mag or two thru and be done with it just to keep you comfortable using it. Then put it back in your pocket and off you go. Speaking of which, I'm fixing to make the attempt to get me a P3AT and a PF9 here very shortly. Ran into a small deal this weekend when having a either would have been better than trying to use my EDC. Bowling and CCW don't mix real well. :uhoh:
 
Just athought on another possible pistol for CCW for you.

The CZ (www.cz-usa.com) range of pistols are solid, reliable and effective. The Glock 26 equivalent is the 2075 RAMI which comes in both all steel as well as with a polymer frame. Magazine come in both 10 and 14 for the 9mm and it can be had in .40 if you really want it, is DA/SA and can be carried cocked and locked safely.

I will admit to having being a little prejudiced.....:cool: got a RAMI as well as it's big brother the SP-01
 
I'd say wait on the XD and pick up a cheaper alternative for now. Springfield is bringing out an XD40 (and XD9) Compact (3/4ths shorter height) later this year (currently the XD Compact is only available in .45). it should be much more conceal friendly.

part # for XD40 Compact = XD9782HCSP06
 
Best carry

First What makes a gun easy to carry is the Holster. This is where most people go cheap. BIG MISTAKE! A good holster will last a lifetime and make the XD comefortable to carry. The XD is the better gun fo the two. I would wait till I could aford the XD compact. Buy full sixed mags to make pratice more pleasent and yet still have the compact to carry. Buy good leather ! Buy lots of ammo. Shoot one gun very well, Expansion of your collection is a give in in time don't rush it by purchaseing guns your not sure of. :D J.Michael
 
Carrying a gun is a big responsibility and is not comfortable. The physical aspect of it is actually rather annoying. Back pain (at first), sweat, buying new clothes, finding a good gun belt, accumulating holsters, cleaning, and so forth all go with this life style. Yes, this is a life style. Once you are acclimated to it, the problems really are not a big deal.

But the main idea here is that you are considering the gun in terms of convenience of carry. This is a mistake because you have forgotten about the purpose of the weapon: to win the fight!

You will need to balance size, power, capacity, and concealability in your carry gun. Optimize towards fight; if and when you get into a real fight, you will want the biggest, baddest thumper with the most ammo available (see Jim Cirillo's Guns, Bullets and Gunfights -- get a copy today and read it). In the end, convenience won't play a major role--unless you didn't carry the gun in the first place. Going too small for *convenience* is just as big of problem if your tiny gun's bullets don't stop the attack quickly (or worse...you run out of ammo).

The non-compact pistols in the XD series are not a great CCW pieces due to size. Their overall height is 1/4" MORE than a Glock 20 or 21. This is rather extraordinary; I have measured many handguns in my quest for "The Ultimate CCW Gun" and very, very few semi-autos are larger than the Glock 20/21. (Note: I think I'm mixing up the XD 40 with the XD 45, which I had. I do know that the XD 40 is very tall for a service gun)

Let's look at an example. I'm not trying to sell you on Glock; far from it. I want to show you what to look for.

One of the MOST efficient handguns for concealed carry is the Glock 19. It is approximately 1" wide, it is large enough to achieve a full grip, is chambered for 9mm, and is less than 5" tall (I think it's 4.75" tall without sights---don't bother counting them). It has 15+1 capacity, which is probably the most capacity for similarly sized handguns (though I think the SIG P250 will be its direct rival). If you don't like 9mm, there are 40 and 357 SIG versions that hold 13+1 rounds.

Now, compare the full sized XD. It's very wide in the slide and it's a tall gun. The grip is more vertical, which affects concealability (grip sticks out back instead of up like the Glock). Capacity is good and the ergonomics fit more folks comfortably. It also has an extra safety (the grip safety), which some people really like. The main problem with the XD is its vertical grip: this will tend to stick out for strong side carry when performing certain movements.

This problem can be reduced by choosing the correct holster. Forward cant (FBI -- forward body incline) will help negate printing caused by the butt of the gun (or in the case of magazines that are not flush with the bottom such as those of the Glock and XD). More forward cant means you'll have more room to move.

Another problem is the overall thickness of the gun + holster + belt + pants. Straps on the front of the holster increase the thickness by up to 1/4". Not good if you have a really wide gun like an HK or XD! Interestingly enough, the XD 45 Compact has the exact same height as a loaded G19, but is a bit wider to accomodate the design and 45 ACP caliber (it also has 10+1 capacity). The Milt Sparks VM-2 does not mount the straps on the front face of the holster; it's on the ends.

That said, I recommend that you try multiple guns based upon how tall and wide you can reasonably conceal under a t-shirt with a good holster that has lots of forward cant. Get the biggest gun you can that has the most capacity. Keep the Kel-Tec in your back pocket as a backup, but choose a better tool as your primary carry piece.
 
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I can only tell you what I have done....I had to reduce my gun collection (for financial reasons) and I only have two SD weapons now. Both are concealable as well as house guns.
My primary weapon for carry is a Kel-Tec P11 in 9mm. It is perfect for ccw with the side clip, requiring no holster for iwb carry. Being a 9mm, practice is cheap and yet the cartridge is acceptable for defense. Price for that is equal to the P3AT.
My second carry/house gun is a Makarov in 9x18 mm. It is a low cost, totally dependable weapon that is slightly more powerful than the .380 and is extremely easy to conceal.
Give them both a try....they work very well for me and I'm 64!
 
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