Just what Do You Get For The Hazmat Fee?

[SquirrelNuts]

I worked for UPS part-time for three months a while back. We trained on Haz Mat a little. Everything we ever discussed was procedureal...such as do not load two Haz Mat packages next to each other in the package car. It has a candy striped piece of paperwork with about 10 carbon copies on it. The driver was required to carry one of those copies in the cab in case something happened to the vehicle. The driver could give the slips to the first responders so they knew what was on the truck. Other than a few in-house rules, they were treated like everything else...thrown, smashed, kicked, etc.

 

[TxBaaylea]

Hazmat fee

Because they can = extra profit.

Vernon

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why do they consider primers hazardous but not loaded ammo? I would think a primer alone is much safer than a primer which is in contact with powder topped by a bullet in loaded ammo.

 

[evan price]

Loaded ammo is ORM-D (like spray cans), not hazmat. Supposedly because the whole thing is contained in metal and therefore, safe. Has to go ground only, though.

 

[ReloaderFred]

ArchAngelCD,

Primers are an actual explosive, and when there are a lot of them in one place, can cause damage if detonated together. That's why almost all the primer manufacturers put them in individual holes in the packaging.

Gunpowder is a propellant, and doesn't explode, except for black powder. It burns rapidly, but doesn't explode. Once it's loaded into a cartridge, it's fully contained and generally won't go off if dropped, crushed, etc., whereas primers will go off if dropped, crushed, etc.

That's the primary differences between the two under DOT and UN shipping rules.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Fred,
Stop bringing logic into my conspiracy theories!

 

[rogn]

But who reaps the benefits of the cold clammy hand in my wallet? Is it the gummint or the indiferent shipping cos. $22.50 would indicate the best part of an hour to read or learn to read the extra labels; I think theres a profit margin engineered into this beuracratic event also. Outside of some benefit to first responders, this seems to be another indirect form of taxation.

 

[ReloaderFred]

ArchAngelCD,

Sorry about that, but I'm from the world of "just the facts, Mam, nothing but the facts". I just can't help myself sometimes......

rogn,

All the money collected for the HazMat fees goes to the transportation company (UPS or Fedex). Nothing goes to the government, neither local, state or federal. It is possible that some companies add a small amount to cover the paperwork and training required to be able to ship Hazardous Materials.

When I had my FFL, I used to buy from Bower Wholesale, when it was in Los Angeles. They would ship everything except powder and primers. When I asked them about it, they said their shipping guy was "too stupid to get through the class required to ship them, and probably couldn't get the paperwork straight". They had the best prices around at that time, so if I was in the area, I would stop by and stock up. Otherwise I would order from the companies that would ship, and pay the exorbitant $5.00 HazMat they were charging at the time......

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[lgbloader]

It has a candy striped piece of paperwork with about 10 carbon copies on it

That would be the Hazardous Material declaration that I advised about in post# 9.

LGB.

 

[qajaq59]

What do they do to justify a $22.50 fee over and above the regular shipping charge?

My guess is that you just get more paper, plus an employee to file it. Isn't that what most regulations are for?

 

[rogn]

Back in the old days when the hazmat fee was born, the only conceivable reason we could discern was that some enterprising young lion at UPS found a new route into the retailers( and consumer's) wallets. Much may I add as a virus in a computer. Now since this has gone on forever, we are "happily" paying this small amout of corporate extortion. Thats my only real point, we're being "taxed" this time by corporate, with no tangible benefits. First responders excepted.

 

[CPT Kirk]

ReloaderFred has the correct information on this topic. But several others have noted that there is no real difference in how the packages are handled (dropped, kicked, thrown, whatever) by the drivers even after they have the training.

Only thing to add is that the shipper (seller) has to pay for the proper packaging and the extra costs associated with that - not UPS/Fedex.

 

[langenc]

You get your plastic acct lightened by $20.

 

[rogn]

$22.50

 

[mgkdrgn]

yep ... I was the hazmat specialist when I was doing air cargo, and then later as a hazmat shipper (medical testing kits) some 15 - 20 years ago, and can testify that all of what is below is true.

Oh, and the training is ever three years ... but the rules change =constantly=.

Penalty for not following the rules? A felony ... 5 years and $25K per incident, to whom evers name is on the paperwork.

As one who had to be re-certified every three years in an 8 hour class, and deal with knowing two big books full of conflicting rules & regs. (DOT & EPA)

And be tested on it to maintain my job.

And having to remember all that crap in order to fill out all the paperwork correctly on every shipment, without running afoul of either DOT or EPA regs that often didn't agree with each other.

And having to have all the labels & forms, and make sure the truck driver did too.

Whatever they charge just barely covers the time, training & paperwork costs involved.

In fact, it's a bargain.

rc

 

[SSN Vet]

In fact, it's a bargain.

no it's a bureaucratic pile of paper...

and that, my friend, is never a bargain.

in the end the box of powder goes on the truck with all of the other packages and gets delivered in the same manner.... only with a LOT more paper following it around

 

[mgkdrgn]

no it's a ...

and that, my friend, is never a bargain.

in the end the box of powder goes on the truck with all of the other packages and gets delivered in the same manner.... only with a LOT more paper following it around

Please feel free to ask the families of the passengers of the ValueJet that did a nose dive into the everglades in 1996 about the "value of that bureaucratic pile of paper".

If the rules in that "pile of paper" had been followed, those folks would still be alive. The lessons learned that are the basis of the HazMat rules have been paid for in blood.