K-Frame Question

[rbernie]

What, if anything, did S&W do to the K-frames back in the day to beef it up for chambering in 357 Mag?

I've been told that the Model 10 and Model 13 are identical save for the cylinder itself (and ejector rod and such), and I'm wondering how true this is...

 

[357wheelgunner]

From what I know about K-frames that is the only difference. The frame was already strong enough, all they did was lengthen the cylinder to fit the .357 rounds.

BTW the S&W K-frame in .357 is the greatest sidearm ever made, IMHO. I love my model 66s ( I have one in 3" and one in 4") and I plan on getting a pair of model 65s, also in 3" and 4".

The K-frames are special because of the low bore axis and relatively low weight for a duty gun. Too bad Smith is discontinuing the .357 K-fram line....

 

[Old Fuff]

You are almost right, but not quite. S&W engineers did make the cylinder longer, the flutes smaller and less deep, and used the same kind of steel and special heat treating that was used in model 27's.

In later years the frame was slightly changed with a heavier top strap and smaller firing pin cut by moving the pin off of the hammer and mounting it in the frame. In addition a few other changes were made to beef up the frame at certain critical points.

They now plan to replace the K-frame Magnums with a new 7-shot/L-frame version in stainless steel and a choice between fixed or adjustable sights. These revolvers are slightly larger but hold one more cartridge. It may take awhile, but I think they will turn out to be popular.

 

[rbernie]

Thanks, Fuff, but your answer actually raises another question - in what dimension(s) is the L frame larger/beefier than the K frame?

 

[Old Fuff]

The cylinder is larger in diameter,and the frame is beefed up at the front because the threaded shank of the barrel is larger. The (round butt) grip is identical to the K-farme. The "L" uses the same lockwork as the "K" except for the hammer, which is taller. The frame is Roughly the same size as Colt's Python. However you can get 7 .357 chambers into the ?86, and that's something Colt never tried. In the same ballpark, Ruger's GP-100 is about the same size, but has a heavier top strap, and in terms of strength that matters.

 

[BluesBear]

I have been teased with photos of a Colt Python that has been rechambered for .41 Magnum. Supposedly it can handle the pressures alright.
I wonder if S&W will ever try it?

 

[Old Fuff]

B.B.

Are you sure that Python wasn't chambered to use a special .41 cartridge Colt dreamed up but didn't produce? I believe it used a .400 or .401 diameter bullet around 200 grains.

S&W deliberately made their .41 Magnum big enough so that it wouldn't fit any Colt or Ruger (other then Ruger's Blackhawk) being made at the time.

 

[BluesBear]

Fuff,

As I understand it there's a smith down in Texas that was doing the conversions.
There's a THR member who has two I believe but I can't recall just who right now. He sent me photos of them while I was in "the home".
I asked if they were five shot and he assured me that they were six.

I'll look later to see if I saved them.

 

[Old Fuff]

I can see a five-shot conversion. Taurus made their Tracker Model in .41 Magnum, and I think its frame and cylinder are about the same as a Python. Colt was trying for a six-shot gun because they knew law inforcement agencies (the targeted market) wouldn't buy a sidearm with a lower capacity. They could do it with a true .400 caliber cartridge, but not the .410 S&W .41 Magnum.

If one was going to start converting Colt I-frames I'd think a 5 or 6 shot 10mm Auto using full-moon clips might be interesting - and possible.

 

[Hammerdown]

Hey Fuff:
I believe the question was about a "K" frame revolver such as a 19-or a 66. Last I checked my Model 27 I believe it was the larger-"N"-frame.... The steel used is a carbon based steel and the level of heat treating is what gave the hotter magnum round a stronger durabillity addition.." All S&W forged carbon steel frames and cylinder's are of the same steel"... wether they are I-J-K-L-or-N They just heat treat to different level's to accomidate the cartridge used. I learned this from a recent phone conversation with S&W service. Although a different frame I learned they do not heat treat the frame nor cylinder in a 624 that they would the 629... Again caliber play's a role in this...44 Special versus .44 Magnum.. Hammerdown

 

[BluesBear]

The only reference to a model 27 in this thread was this,

used the same kind of steel and special heat treating that was used in model 27's.

And that is a correct statement.

This however,

I learned they do not heat treat the frame nor cylinder in a 624 that they would the 629

Is an almost incomprehensible sentence.