Fatelvis
Member
Do K frames "shoot loose" quicker than L frames? If so, how much can a K frame take before showing "loosness"? I have a M19-3 6"bbl., and was wondering how many magnum loads I should run through it, without hurting it. Thanx-
K frame vs. L frame
- Thread starter Fatelvis
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Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
Old rule of thumb was shoot .38's for practice----load .357's for carry.
As to an exact amount----I have no idea.
As to an exact amount----I have no idea.
bountyhunter
member
I think it would depend how loose the gun was set up when new. Some of the new SW guns are a mess.
Albert Shear
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I have many K&L frames but I still have the 13 I carried as an LEO in the 1970s. I have put over 20k rounds through it, mostly 110gr,125ge and158gr 357magnum. I still shoot it. I also have a 65 that lasted 2k rounds of magnums before it had to go to S&W. Lesson- it just depends on the individual gun.
The k-frame M19 was made at a time when cops used 38 loads 90% of the time and 357 loads 10 % of the time ,that was ok. When cops started to use the M19 with 100% 357 loads they found it couldn't hold up. So they went to a larger L frame. Remember that the 357 originally came out in the large N frame.
HankB
Member
Today's .357 loads aren't as "hot" as yesterday's - the "old" loads, developed when if you wanted a .357 you got an S&W "N" frame, were beating the heck out of K-frames, so the manufacturers reduced them a bit. I believe SAAMI actually lowered the acceptable maximum chamber pressure for .357 ammo several years ago.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
The K frame was designed for the 158gr LRN 38special around 1899??/ not the 357 magnum. The old M&P was built on a K frame, just updated steel and hardened differently makes it hold up to 357s.
the 13/19 and later the 65/66 were designed and hardened to handle the 357 for Bill Jordan, who wanted a lighter and easier to carry gun for police work vs the N frame model 27/28. Later the L frame was added to handle the fast 125gr 357s
the 13/19 and later the 65/66 were designed and hardened to handle the 357 for Bill Jordan, who wanted a lighter and easier to carry gun for police work vs the N frame model 27/28. Later the L frame was added to handle the fast 125gr 357s
No one can say for sure how many max .357s your M-19 will shoot before getting loose because it depends on many factors. I have seen M-19 snubbies that looked like they were not shot much but were loose as a goose. I have also heard of some people claiming to have fired many thousands of rounds through a K-frame with no ill affects.
I think of it like "peeling out" everytime you drive your car. It may not hurt it once or twice but over time, it is going to tear it up and you are going to have to get it fixed. I see plenty of K-frames that are much too loose for my tastes. I have turned down bargins on used K-frames because of how loose they were. I guess they were not such bargins.
The good news is, it will probably be a gradual thing so if you notice that your gun is getting a little loose, you can stop shooting Mags through it and switch to .38s to prolong the life of your gun. If you want to shoot a lot of mags, the K-frame is not for you anyway. If you really want to shoot a ton of full house mags, get a Ruger GP-100. Those things can take it for days. They are too big and heavy to carry but if you are a target shooter, they are fine. I have an L-frame and I am not impressed with the strength, I bought it used so I can't be sure if it is getting loose or if it was just made a little loose but it is not as tight as I like. I have never seen a loose GP-100.
I think of it like "peeling out" everytime you drive your car. It may not hurt it once or twice but over time, it is going to tear it up and you are going to have to get it fixed. I see plenty of K-frames that are much too loose for my tastes. I have turned down bargins on used K-frames because of how loose they were. I guess they were not such bargins.
The good news is, it will probably be a gradual thing so if you notice that your gun is getting a little loose, you can stop shooting Mags through it and switch to .38s to prolong the life of your gun. If you want to shoot a lot of mags, the K-frame is not for you anyway. If you really want to shoot a ton of full house mags, get a Ruger GP-100. Those things can take it for days. They are too big and heavy to carry but if you are a target shooter, they are fine. I have an L-frame and I am not impressed with the strength, I bought it used so I can't be sure if it is getting loose or if it was just made a little loose but it is not as tight as I like. I have never seen a loose GP-100.
Many people carry N-frames, so how can a medium framed Ruger be too big or heavy? I just don't get it when people think that when a handgun weighs over 30oz. they become too heavy to carry and they just become range guns. As a pocket gun the GP-100 won't fit the bill, but it makes a dandy belt gun.
In 1979 Idaho State Police switched from the 4" Model 28 to the 4" Model 65. In 1990 ISP went to the 45 S&W auto. Dad purchased his Model 65 (for $125.00!). He still owns it and will shoot mags, but more often +P 38's. Nevertheless for the eleven years that he carried it he put both +P+ 38's and mags thorugh it. The gun is still as tight as the day it was issued to him in the summer of 79. On the other hand I have handled loose Model 28s.Go figure.
A 6" SS Ruger GP-100 weighs 46ozs. A 6" S&W 629 weighs 45ozs. The 4" bbl versions weigh a few ozs less.
Are you telling me that there are people that actually carry 2 1/2 lbs of gun concealed? I'm sure it is possible but it would take some serious effort to keep it from getting in the way and being noticed. 46ozs is going to drag down whatever you hang it on. I'm sure that there are a few people out there that have a life style where this is possible but for most of us, 46ozs is way too much to lug around when there are so many better choices.
If it were carry a 46oz gun or nothing, then maybe I could see carrying a Ruger GP-100 but in all honesty, I doubt I would carry if that were my only choice.
A 6" revolver probably no, but we do carry 3 and 4 inch N-frames. In cold weather when I wear a jacket or heavy sweater I sometimes carry a 3" M24. With a good belt and holster it's no more of a bother than any other revolver and no I'm not very big (5' 9"). Many others have been carrying Mountain Guns since they first came out.
The Ruger GPs do come in shorter tubes (as I hope you know) and yes people do carry them. What may seem too heavy and big for you, others get along quite well with it. If they were too big and heavy then why are there makers producing concealed holsters for them?
Albert Shear
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I have been carrying N frames for 30 years and I have found no problem. I am though 6'1" 225 so I guess its easy for me. I have carried 3" and 4" models, my favorite being one of my Model 27s with a 3 1/2" barrell in an Alessi CQC/S. Second would be either 3" 625 or 24 in an Alessi Talon IWB.
Stainz
Member
While a 686 L-frame is better suited, both strength and weight-related recoil wise, to continued .357 use, a K-frame 65/66 is also rated as a .357 Magnum. A call to S&W will yield the same results. For .38 Special, and more current production models (Again, a call to S&W may be due...), even +P loads, the K-frame 10 ('M&P') and it's cousins are ideal. Common sense needs to be applied here... If you want to continually 'proof-test' your revolver, a Ruger GP-100 is better suited, longevity wise.
Stainz
Stainz
JohnK
Member
A 1911 is 39 oz (unloaded), that's 2.4 lbs and people have been carrying them concealed for a very long time. Heavier guns just need a better belt and holster than a ultra lightweight gun can get away with. I've carried a 4" GP100 concealed many times, sometimes in a shoulder holster, sometimes belt.
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