Kansas Leads the Nation

[BSA1]

Gun legislation would keep counties, cities from firearm restrictions.

The Great State of Kansas continues to lead the way in our fight for more pro-gun rights.

From The Topeka Capital Journal;

“Influential gun-rights groups are pushing proposals in Kansas to strip cities and counties of any power to restrict the open carrying of firearms or regulate guns, telling legislators Thursday that a muddle of local rules confuses firearms owners and infringes upon their civil liberties.

The House Federal and State Affairs Committee began two days of hearings on a bill ensuring that the open carrying of firearms is allowed statewide, prohibiting cities and counties from regulating gun and ammunition sales, and voiding existing local ordinances. The measure also prohibits cities and counties from using tax dollars to administer gun buyback programs and prevents local governments from regulating the carrying of knives, even in public buildings.”

Notice it just doesn’t keep cities and counties from banning Open Carry but also bans them;

from regulating gun and ammunition sales, and voiding existing local ordinances

from using tax dollars to administer gun buyback programs

and prevents local governments from regulating the carrying of knives, even in public buildings.

http://cjonline.com/news/2014-01-30/new-kansas-gun-bill-erases-local-limits-guns

 

[MagnumDweeb]

Awesome. Kudos to Kansas.

 

[md2lgyk]

How is that "leading the nation?" Lots of states, mine included, already have such laws.

I used to live in Kansas. The only thing it leads the nation in is boredom.

 

[armoredman]

Not exactly leading the nation, (AZ had the first knife pre-emption law, I believe, and our firearms pre-emption law dates a while ago), but VERY happy to see it go through! Good luck, Kansas!

 

[Red Wind]

Florida led the way on many of those Kansas issues , but congratulations to Kansas for their fine efforts. . Definitely adding some new wrinkles,TMK, such as the gun buyback proposal.

Fly high,Jayhawks!

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

If by "leading" you mean catching p then yes.
I recall that when I moved up here from Oklahoma 14 years ago I left a state that had concealed carry for one that did not...
But yes, Kansas laws are getting cleaned up in some ways. Thanks to the KSRA for all their efforts.

 

[MedWheeler]

Once passed and reviewed, we'll see if it beats Florida's pre-emption laws. Florida still allows Lower New York County (aka: Palm Beach County) and others, if they wish, to impose waiting periods on handgun purchases and a few other restrictions.

 

[BSA1]

Sorry for being slow to respond as we are dealing with a ice storm.

Kansas was very slow to pass concealed carry law being the 47th state to do so. But since then;

Kansas has picked a fight with A.G. Holder when it passed bipartisan support the 'Strictest Second Amendment Protection Law' In Nation in 2013 which says that guns made in the state are not subject to federal gun bans as long as they stay in Kansas.

Licensed gun owners with concealed carry permits are allowed to bring firearms into public buildings deemed not to have adequate security measures, such as metal detectors and trained guards and people who try to bring them into places where they are prohibited won’t face criminal penalties.

Permit to Purchase - No
Registration of Firearms - No
Licensing of Owner - No
Permit to Carry - Yes

Preemption;
No city or county shall adopt any ordinance, resolution or regulation, and no agent of any city or county shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, transfer, ownership, storage or transporting of firearms or ammunition, or any component or combination thereof

Range Protection;
A person who owns, operates, manages or uses a sport shooting range that conforms to generally accepted operation practices in the state is not subject to civil liability or criminal prosecution in any matter relating to noise or noise pollution

32 states recognize Kansas permits and Kansas recognizes permits from 47 states.

The Bill currently being proposed;

keep cities and counties from banning Open Carry but also bans them from regulating gun and ammunition sales, and voiding existing local ordinances

from using tax dollars to administer gun buyback programs

from compiling information on whether employees have conceal and carry permits

Currently courts have the authority to demand defendants forfeit firearms based on the seriousness of the crime. The bill “preempts that decision from the court whether the gun should be forfeited.”


Prohibit municipalities from destroying guns that had been confiscated

Prevents local governments from regulating the carrying of knives, even in public buildings.

But it restores cities and counties’ ability to regulate firearms in public buildings such as jails, courthouses and city halls.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Nice to see more states getting on board with preemption.

Virginia has it, plus if PD's do a "buyback" they are required to sell the guns to dealers, not destroy them.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Love KS!

 

[Strahley]

Getting better here every year

 

[torqem]

good deal, KS! Now if you just add some seaboard.....

 

[dogtown tom]

BSA1 ....Kansas has picked a fight with A.G. Holder when it passed bipartisan support the 'Strictest Second Amendment Protection Law' In Nation in 2013 which says that guns made in the state are not subject to federal gun bans as long as they stay in Kansas.

I doubt Eric Holder lost any sleep and probably had a good laugh at such a "law".

It is unfortunate that Kansas state legislators (and those from other states as well) waste their time with such amazingly benign legislation. These state firearm freedom or Second Amendment laws carry ZERO weight..........because state laws do not override Federal law.

Too many gun owners get all giddy because their state passed a law saying Federal ___________ laws don't apply..............the USSC disagrees (and has continued to disagree for decades)

 

[BSA1]

dogtown tom,

So I guess from your comment that you don't believe the 10th Amendment has any authority;

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

[JohnKSa]

So I guess from your comment that you don't believe the 10th Amendment has any authority...

It's not about what anybody "believes".

There's ample SCOTUS precedent to establish federal jurisdiction as it applies to the issue of firearms manufacture and sale of new firearms.

Believing otherwise is as futile as passing a state law that says otherwise.

 

[BSA1]

Well a sizable number of educated folks including other states say otherwise.

Please cite the Supreme Court case banning intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

Failure to exercise state rights will must assuredly result in loss of those rights.

p.s. Eric Holder is the one that is threatening Kansas. Not the other way around. It seems gun owners in Kansas are getting tired of being pushed around.

 

[dogtown tom]

BSA1 Well a sizable number of educated folks including other states say otherwise.

Umm........well..........sit back and feel all warm and fuzzy because those "educated folks" think those laws apply. The US Supreme Court (and ATF) has repeatedly said otherwise.....ie Federal laws regarding commerce in firearms still apply.

Please cite the Supreme Court case banning intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

Ummm, how about you start with the Commerce Clause of the Constitution?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

In that Wikipedia article are numerous USSC cases where the Federal governments ability to regulate interstate commerce have been upheld.

Failure to exercise state rights will must assuredly result in loss of those rights.

Yeah, us Southerners figured that out a few years back.

p.s. Eric Holder is the one that is threatening Kansas. Not the other way around.

Eric Holder isn't doing anything that any previous Attorney General didn't do.....why panic now? ATF doesn't lay dormant during Republican administrations anymore than it becomes more anti gun during Democratic administrations.

It seems gun owners in Kansas are getting tired of being pushed around.

While I applaud your state pride, Kansas isn't leading anyone anywhere. As others have pointed out above, Kansas is playing catch up with the rest of the country.

Why not test your states firearm freedom laws? Go down to your local gun store and try to purchase a firearm WITHOUT filling out a 4473 and NICS. If your dealer is as bamboozled as some by these laws, you might slip by. But warn your dealer to read this first:
https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/open-letter-to-all-kansas-federal-firearms-licensees-provides-guidance-regarding-the-kansas-second-amendment-protection-act.pdf

This isn't Eric Holders sudden take on the Commerce Clause, its been used by EVERY Attorney General for decades.

 

[BSA1]

"Umm........well..........sit back and feel all warm and fuzzy because those "educated folks" think those laws apply. The US Supreme Court (and ATF) has repeatedly said otherwise.....ie Federal laws regarding commerce in firearms still apply.

Please cite Supreme Court ruling regarding Intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

Your belief that the Federal Government has the authority to strip citizens of ownership of all firearms with a stroke of the pen and has the power to invalid the 10th Amendment is what laws like this are all about.

Quote:
Please cite the Supreme Court case banning intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

"Ummm, how about you start with the Commerce Clause of the Constitution?"

I am well aware of the overreaching the Federal Government is using to regulate all products for tax revenue and control of citizens rights. It just serves as a example of how failure to exercise States rights have resulted in this problem.

"In that Wikipedia article are numerous USSC cases where the Federal governments ability to regulate interstate commerce have been upheld."

Again please cite Supreme Court ruling on Intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

Quote:
Failure to exercise state rights will must assuredly result in loss of those rights.

Yeah, us Southerners figured that out a few years back.

Quote.s. Eric Holder is the one that is threatening Kansas. Not the other way around.

Eric Holder isn't doing anything that any previous Attorney General didn't do.....why panic now? ATF doesn't lay dormant during Republican administrations anymore than it becomes more anti gun during Democratic administrations."

There is a third political party that actively supports the Right to Bear and Keep Arms.

Quote:It seems gun owners in Kansas are getting tired of being pushed around.

While I applaud your state pride, Kansas isn't leading anyone anywhere. As others have pointed out above, Kansas is playing catch up with the rest of the country" and Kansas.

Hummm…Texas doesn’t have Open Carry does it? That makes them "playing catch-up with the rest of the Country" and Kansas.

Nor has anyone bragged about what their state is doing although many are also deeply involved in the fight.

"Why not test your states firearm freedom laws? Go down to your local gun store and try to purchase a firearm WITHOUT filling out a 4473 and NICS. If your dealer is as bamboozled as some by these laws, you might slip by. But warn your dealer to read this first:
https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...ection-act.pdf"

Totally off subject and red herring.

"This isn't Eric Holders sudden take on the Commerce Clause, its been used by EVERY Attorney General for decades."

Yep. This and other actions have led to massive distrust of the Federal Government and the rise of Tea Party and Independent voters. It is time for the pro-gun third party to take over. But for real change to take place gun owners are going to have to find the courage to demand change through the ballot box.

We do have some work to do to eliminate concealed carry permits altogether but that is also on the agenda.

Kansas was certainly slow to join the fight but she now stands at the forefront of the battle for State Rights and the RBKA.

 

[dogtown tom]

Please learm to use the quote feature.....

BSA1

"Umm........well..........sit back and feel all warm and fuzzy because those "educated folks" think those laws apply. The US Supreme Court (and ATF) has repeatedly said otherwise.....ie Federal laws regarding commerce in firearms still apply.

Please cite Supreme Court ruling regarding Intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

I answered you....its in the Constitution and I hand fed you the Wikipedia article that explains the Commerce Clause and Supreme Court decisions.

Your belief that the Federal Government has the authority to strip citizens of ownership of all firearms with a stroke of the pen and has the power to invalid the 10th Amendment is what laws like this are all about.

Uh what?
I never said anything of the sort.
I did say your Kansas firearm freedom law is null, void, ineffective blather by a state legislature seeking to pander to its citizens while offering nothing of substance.

Quote:
Please cite the Supreme Court case banning intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

"Ummm, how about you start with the Commerce Clause of the Constitution?"

I am well aware of the overreaching the Federal Government is using to regulate all products for tax revenue and control of citizens rights. It just serves as a example od how failure to exercise States rights have resulted in this problem."

The "overreaching" is with the permission of the Supreme Court. Got a better argument?

"In that Wikipedia article are numerous USSC cases where the Federal governments ability to regulate interstate commerce have been upheld."

Again please cite Supreme Court ruling on Intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval.

Arrrrrrgh.:banghead:
Nothing like trying to teach those who refuse read it for themselves.

There is a third political party that actively supports the Right to Bear and Keep Arms.

Really? And tell us how many Presidential elections they have won?

Quote:It seems gun owners in Kansas are getting tired of being pushed around.

While I applaud your state pride, Kansas isn't leading anyone anywhere. As others have pointed out above, Kansas is playing catch up with the rest of the country."

Hummm…Texas doesn’t have Open Carry does it? That makes them "playing catch-up with the rest of the Country."

Texas law DOES permit the open carry of firearms. You don't know Texas law any better than Federal law.

"Why not test your states firearm freedom laws? Go down to your local gun store and try to purchase a firearm WITHOUT filling out a 4473 and NICS. If your dealer is as bamboozled as some by these laws, you might slip by. But warn your dealer to read this first:
https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...ection-act.pdf"

Totally off subject and red herring.

Off subject? Not by a long shot. You claim Kansas' new Second Amendment law permits ignoring Federal law. Put up or shut up.

This isn't Eric Holders sudden take on the Commerce Clause, its been used by EVERY Attorney General for decades."

Yep and time for the pro-gun third party to take over. But for real change to take place gun owners are going to have to find the courage to demand change through the ballot box.

Keep on dreaming of your nameless third party "taking over". Fill us in on all those successful third party Presidential candidates in your lifetime.

Kansas was certainly slow to join the fight but she now stands at the forefront of the battle for State Rights and the RBKA.

Funny, but you seem to be the only one to say that.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Please cite Supreme Court ruling regarding Intrastate manufacture and sales to residents of that same state without BATF approval...

Montana tried it. The Ninth Circuit said no:

...the Ninth Circuit (Montana Shooting Sports Association v. Holder, No. 10-36094, (9th Cir., 2013)) has affirmed the District Court's dismissal of the suit and ruled that the Montana law upon which plaintiff relied is preempted by federal law, which federal law Congress had the power under the Commerce Clause to enact. The Ninth Circuit relied substantially on Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1 (2005) and United States v. Stewart, 451 F.3d 1071 (9th Cir. 2006)....

The Supreme Court declined to hear it.

At this point Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1 (2005) is pretty much the controlling Supreme Court authority on the subject.

 

[BSA1]

I answered you....its in the Constitution and I hand fed you the Wikipedia article that explains the Commerce Clause and Supreme Court decisions.

Wikipedia is merely a dictionary based on the opinion of the authors and is not a legal court ruling.

Uh what?
I never said anything of the sort.
I did say your Kansas firearm freedom law is null, void, ineffective blather by a state legislature seeking to pander to its citizens while offering nothing of substance.

Then kick back and watch the Superbowl.

The "overreaching" is with the permission of the Supreme Court. Got a better argument?

Nope as I said it just serves as a example of how failure to exercise States rights have resulted in this problem.

Really? And tell us how many Presidential elections they have won?

Of course you are smart enough to know the answer to your queston. But you should also be smart enough to realize the real power lays with the Congress not the President.

Texas law DOES permit the open carry of firearms. You don't know Texas law any better than Federal law.

“A significant percentage of Texas residents believe that open-carry is currently legal in Texas, but they are mistaken, except in a few locations. One can openly carry a handgun on their own property, while engaging in sporting activities in which handguns are commonly used (ex. hunting and shooting matches), and in their place of business or employment under certain circumstances.”

Hardly as widespread as allowed by Kansas and other states.

"Other Texans mistakenly believe that there is a law in Texas that specifically prohibits carrying handguns openly. There is no law in Texas that specifically addresses open-carry except in the limited context of a Concealed Handgun licensee carrying a handgun. (CHL’s must keep their handguns concealed.) This distinction in the law is not merely trivia for your amusement; it is a critical factor in legislation that seeks to legalize the carrying of self-defense handguns openly.”

It looks to me that this matter needs to be cleared up a bit.

https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/index.php/editorials/37-straight-talk-about-open-carry

 

[improperlyaged]

Arkansas already has that. Local cities and counties cannot make any more laws regarding firearms that are more stringent than current state law. The only thing they can govern is firing firearms within city limits. Even that is thrown out in the case of self defense.

 

[dogtown tom]

BSA1

I answered you....its in the Constitution and I hand fed you the Wikipedia article that explains the Commerce Clause and Supreme Court decisions.

Wikipedia is merely a dictionary based on the opinion of the authors and is not a legal court ruling.

No Wikipedia isn't a dictionary, more like an encyclopedia. While it is capable of being edited by nearly anyone, its accuracy is pretty darn good.

The legal cases cited in that article ARE "legal court rulings" however.

It was my hope that you would take the time to read that article and come to understand WHY the Commerce Clause of the Constitution has the impact it does. You complain that the Wiki article isn't a legal court ruling........yet because you chose to ignore it, you didn't read where it addresses several Supreme Court rulings in regard to interstate commerce.

Uh what?
I never said anything of the sort.
I did say your Kansas firearm freedom law is null, void, ineffective blather by a state legislature seeking to pander to its citizens while offering nothing of substance.

Then kick back and watch the Superbowl.

The Super Bowl will have the same effect on Kansas as the Kansas' Second Amendment law.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

How is that "leading the nation?" Lots of states, mine included, already have such laws.

I used to live in Kansas. The only thing it leads the nation in is boredom.

Having a bad day? If so.....

 

[BSA1]

It was my hope that you would take the time to read that article and come to understand WHY the Commerce Clause of the Constitution has the impact it does. You complain that the Wiki article isn't a legal court ruling........yet because you chose to ignore it, you didn't read where it addresses several Supreme Court rulings in regard to interstate commerce.

One last comment. Sale of products made within a state and sold to the residents of that SAME STATE are INTRASTATE transactions.

in•tra•state [in-truh-steyt] adjective: existing or occurring within the boundaries of a state, especially of the United States.

1in•ter•state adjective: of, connecting, or existing between two or more states especially of the United States <interstate commerce>

I am well familiar with INTERstate commerce and the abuse of it by the Federal Government. You keep referencing interstate cases which are not the same thing. It looks like you are as confused about the difference in the meaning between Intrastate and Interstate just as you are about open carry in Texas.

(Well I will concede on the point of open carrying your handgun while walking in your house while wearing underwear).