Kel-Tec .380 as a primary CCW ?

[Newton]

I have one sat on the coffee table as I type.

If I was facing a shotgun or rifle I wouldn't feel too confident, but then, what would I feel confident with in a such a situation. If a street punk pulled out a knife or .38 snub, I'm sure the P-3AT would be happy to oblige. Of course it doesn't shape up to my .40 Beretta in any sense of that phrase.

But none of this applies in my home state of course, Lord forbid we should defend ourselves.


Newton

 

[Russ]

Kokapelli & Azrael,

Thank you both very much for the ballistics info.

Russ

 

[22luvr]

Absolutely....without question.

Mine's broken in with over 250 rounds through it. It is totally reliable, accurate, and just about undetectable in the pocket. I sold my Smith 340SC because it was so fussy with ammo, was lumpy in the pocket and kicked like a Missouri mule with .357 mag loads. The P-3AT is nigh-near perfect for concealed pocket carry. I'd recommend one highly.

 

[azrael]

No worries mate

 

[CZ-100]

I carry one in my pocket everyday

 

[LoneWulf]

Only if I was suicidal.
Just my opinion, but Kel Tec makes crap, unreliable crap.

If you value your life, don't risk it on a Kel Tec.
If you don't value your life, go ahead enjoy your Kel Tec.

 

[kokapelli]

LoneWulf, what do you base that opinion on?
I have two P-32s and two P-3ATs that I shoot every week. I did have a problem with the P-3ATs that were corrected quickly and have shot hundreds of rounds through them and since the repair they are 100%.

 

[WonderNine]

I did have a problem with the P-3ATs that were corrected quickly

Lifetime warranties aren't much good in a brandishing situation. You know, the ones where you pull the trigger and get nothing.

They're just not for me kind of like Hi-Points and Glocks aren't for me either. Enjoy your Kel-Tecs, The selections at the gunstore would have to be pretty skinny for me to select one as a backup piece, much less my primary CCW.

If I ever buy a Kel-Tec you can come back and beat me over the head with this post.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

My KelTec P3AT goes bang every time... Don't stand in front of it.

 

[LoneWulf]

Kokapelli,
I base my opinion on two P-11's, one P-32 and the 380 that malfunctioned without hesitation.
I won't own a gun that malfucntions, even after the factory has "fixed" the gun.
Some people get ones that work, I haven't had that luck. Or maybe the universe is protecting me from dangerous unreliable weapons.
There are two entire websites dedicated to "fluffing and buffing" Kel Tecs to make them work properly.
I have given them ample chances to prove themselves and they have proven themselves to be unreliable and therefore dangerous.
Check out Ktog to see how much trouble the guns can be.
http://www.ktog.org/

I will stick to Glocks and Smith revolvers to keep my butt out of the morgue.

 

[22luvr]

Sorry 'bout your luck with Kel-Tec Loneworlf....

Here's the flip side of your problems with Kel-Tec: I ran 1,000 rounds through my P32 without a malfunction and it was BOX-STOCK. My P-3AT appears to be heading that way too. I will admit my P11 went back to the factory but when it came back it was 100% reliable.

You also mentioned Smiths and Glocks as reliable. Well, I just dumped my Smith 340SC because it would unseat just about every type of ammo I tried in it. It was sent back to the factory to replace a cylinder that had serious face erosion. Talk about a nasty situation to have a bullet unseat and jam up against the forcing cone! That happened more than once too.

And your post about valuing your life and Kel-Tec was way over the edge. C'mon....tone it down a little.

Oh, and Wondernine: brandishing is against the law in my state and probably in yours too. Try using a better selection of words next time.

 

[kokapelli]

LoneWulf, Glocks fail too!

I have not seen this happen to a KelTec!

 

[braindead0]

Wait until kel-tec offers a .40 and people start re-loading for it.

The funny thing I see about Kel-tec is people brag about shooting a thousand rounds, or 1500 rounds. I had one guy on KTOG tell me "well they aren't designed to shoot 1000's of rounds".

During the warmer months I put 1000 rounds down range a month, and my wife does as well. I've put at least 8k rounds through my Taurus PT-92 with one hickup (due to operator error).

If on the other hand you have one that works realiably (i'd consider a couple hundred with no problem good enough), then go for it. I suspect your needs are different than mine.

 

[mod12]

braindead

how long have you been that way? keltec had a .40 but took it off the market when SOME shooters couldn't handle the recoil with their limp wrists. not because of failures. never heard of a kb with one. operator error? 900 rds. thru mine with never a burp.
just bought a S&W 669, hope it performs as well as my p11

 

[mod12]

p11

should have said my p11 is a 9mm.

 

[LoneWulf]

Kokapelli,

Sure Glocks Kb from time to time, all guns do, but at least they feed, cycle and have had millions put into circulation during their era. Trillions of rounds have gone through Glocks, Kel Tec cannot say the same.
The sheer quantity of Glocks out there makes it easy to find ones that have failed, even catastrophic failures as you show.
1911's, Beretta's, HK's, etc have all had similar failures. It is easy to find a bad example of any weapon when there are millions of them out there to choose from.
Kel Tecs fail at a much higher percentage rate than Glocks, just read the gun boards. I have no stats, I know of no studies done on the subject.
People accept the failure of a cheap gun like a Kel Tec, Bryco, Jennings, etc.
It is big news when a Glock fails, since they are at the pinnacle of success, it becomes a way to knock them down a little.
It's not news when a crap gun fails, it is news when a great gun fails.

Kel Tec is a gun for those who want a cheap gun.
Did you know that Kel Tec discontinued their 40sw version because it was unreliable, even by Kel Tec standards? Blaming the failure on "limp wristing" instead of poor design was their corporate way to attempt to avoid blame.

I hear so many people praise their Kel Tec's, I am happy for them and I hope they never have any weapon fail them in their time of need.

I will stick to proven designs. Designs used worldwide in every environment on the planet. Not some poorly designed and poorly manufactured gun that has a cult following.

There are no "fluff and buff" pages for Glocks, Berettas, HK's and other quality weapons, but there is for Kel Tec. There has got to be a reason for that. Ya think?

 

[P95Carry]

Wulf ... I have been interested in your comments ... I am keen to see anti ones as much as pro .... ''levels the playing field'' so to speak!

There are no "fluff and buff" pages for Glocks, Berettas, HK's and other quality weapons, but there is for Kel Tec. There has got to be a reason for that. Ya think?

I would say one thing here .. KT has attempted and for most part achieved .. an astonishing excercize in miniaturization ... the makes you mention are ... effectively ... full size.

In the process of achieving this .. KT has produced a minute gun ... which I would almost expect to be potentially ''picky'' ..... it relies on a lot to perform ... very little margin for error. I would NOT from choice have mine as 1º ...... only BUG from choice. If however when mine is ''bedded in'' it performs as I expect and hope .. then it will not get large quantities of ammo put thru .. it needs proved and that's it. ....... after that it just will sit until needed ... preferably not.

I would put considerable faith in that once I am satisfied it performs ..... but would agree to being more comfortable with ''others''. Should the summer heat or circumstance however, dictate a near impossibility for CCW - then I'd be awful glad to have just this lil pup along for the ride ... than zilch! And that might literally mean ''ride'' ... when biking becomes possible again.

 

[LoneWulf]

P95carry,
Excellent points.
The margin for error is slim in such a small gun.
I respect what they attempted, but I don't respect what they achieved. Which is an unreliable weapon.

The reason I have owned so many is that I wanted to make it work, but alas it was not to be.
When a 9mm is fluffed and buffed, but won't even function reliably with ball ammo. There is something seriously wrong with the gun.
I shoot 10mm's, 41's, 44's, so limp wristing is not the issue, poor design and poor quality are.

Now to say something nice about Kel Tec.
I shot a buddies 40 subgun that uses Glock 22 mags and damn, that is a sweet weapon. No function problems and more than acceptable accuracy for its purpose.

 

[tiberius]

I have no stats, I know of no studies done on the subject.

Thus, it is hearsay. Saying "Kel Tecs are unreliable" is EXACTLY like saying "Glocks Kaboom".

Kel Tecs are generally reliable and Glocks generally do not explode when fired. They ARE both quality designs however.

 

[kokapelli]

LoneWulf, where do you get this stuff? what was your source for this statement__

"Did you know that Kel Tec discontinued their 40sw version because it was unreliable, even by Kel Tec standards? Blaming the failure on "limp wristing" instead of poor design was their corporate way to attempt to avoid blame."?

That statement is simply not true. The 40cal conversion was discontinued because it was just to much power in to small and to light of a pistol!
And by the way, did I mention that Glocks do fail too!

 

[tiberius]

The 40cal conversion was discontinued because it was just to much power in to small and to light of a pistol!

It will be interesting to see how the Kahr PM40 does, It is very similar in size and weight to the old P-40.

 

[LoneWulf]

Kokapelli,
You can show all the blown up Glocks you want, that doesn't make Kel Tec any better than the crap that they are.
The 40sw Kel Tec was discontinued because it jammed, was it too much power or their poor design?
I have a pic of an HK that blew up, I suppose you think that Kel Tecs are as good as HK's also.
-------------------------------------------------------

You guys carry what you want, I will carry quality weapons only. With proven track records, not some cult POS that people like for whatever reasons.
Kel Tec is quality, just like Bryco and Jennings.
Delude yourselves all you want, but Kel Tec is crap.
If you life is only worth a $200 gun, then by all means carry it.

 

[LoneWulf]

Kokapelli,
The source of my info is from reading KTOG.org and personal experience with all four calibers of the Kel Tec product.
The Kel Tec gunsmith posts there as do many other Kel Tec devotees.
Go read the threads there about these fine weapons, even the owners bitch to high heaven about the problems that they have.

Buy any gun you like, I recommend Sigs, Berettas, Glocks, Smiths, Walthers, not Kel Tecs.

I just sold my 380, it went from reliable to FTE and light striking all in one 30 round session with ball ammo.
I don't need a gun that needs to be babied to keep it working, I need guns that work when filled with lint, dirt, etc.
I carried the same Glock 17 for 11 years as a duty weapon, no malfunctions and no Kb's.

Glocks have a serious problem with the 40sw/357sig and 45acp cartridge. They like to blow from time to time. That sucks and effects their reliablity permanently.
There is an inate problem with the 40/357 cartridge, it is poorly designed with weak cases, particularly at the web.
Glock has a problem with loose chambers and poor case support. The two combinded leads to disaster. That's one of the reasons I carry multiple back up weapons.
The 9mm Glocks do not share this problem, nor do the 9mm Kel Tecs.
I still trust them more than I do a gun that won't feed reliably.

I know well the problems of the Glock, we had an officer using Blazer ammo Kb his Glock 22 a few months back. We are banned from using Blazer in our dept issued weapons.

I am tweaked that out of the four Kel Tecs I have owned, the only one that worked is the P32 that my wife still carries.
The others have been a waste of time and money for me. Guns should work correctly out of the box, not after a fluff and buff or a trip back to the factory.

I do wish Kel Tec's performed better for me, I would still own them and carry them, but after a 75% failure rate, I will carry my Glock and a revolver or two instead.

 

[kokapelli]

LoneWulf, I am a memeber of the "Ktog.org" board and also a member of the "Kel-Tec Range" board. I think that you have way overstated KelTec problems! For the last couple of years that I have participated at ktog.org I have never heard of anyone having problems with every KT product they purchased and most of them have had very satisfactory performance after the occasional problems have been corrected. I do think that KT could do a better job on new products when they first come out. There were problems with the early P-3ATs, but KelTec did make adjustments quickly and now most of the newer P-3ATs are perfect out of the box. I purchased an early P-3AT and did have a problem that KelTec fixed and have since put about 500 trouble free rounds through it. I like the P-3AT so much that I purchased a second one that has been flawless! I have no problem with Glocks or any of the other pistols you mentioned. I think Glocks are generally very good pistols, but they are just to big for pocket carry. If I didn't have the KelTec p32 or P-3AT I would probably be carrying my NAA mini 22.

 

[shooter1]

Of the 5 KTs I have owned, (still have 4) mine have all performed flawlessly.
Will