Kel-Tec FRB - Good Gun or Gimmick?

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I'd buy the M1A or FAL. The RFB is too expensive for what it is due to Kel-Tec's terrible job of manufacturing enough guns to keep supply in line with demand. That, and I just really hate bullpups.
 
Worth every penny, MSRP or otherwise.

But combat? Uhhhh I don't think this thread will last. Perhaps you mean 3 gun?
 
But combat? Uhhhh I don't think this thread will last. Perhaps you mean 3 gun?
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I don't see what the fuss is about. One of the driving reasons (romanticized or not) for purchasing a tactical-style rifle such as the RFB is for combat. All struggles involving force are combat, including home defense. The RFB fits the home defense role quite nicely, when it's stoked with expanding ammunition.
 
Geoff, I'll keep my FS2000 for home defense. The RFB is awesome, but the 5.56 is better for that.

For tactical shooting though, my RFB is holding up decent. One of these days I'll get a chance to strech its legs out, but alas, 100 yards is the best I've done so far. Such is life in Detroit.
 
The RFB is awesome, but the 5.56 is better for that.
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I like the ballistic gel test results of Hornady TAP in .308 enough that I employ that ammunition for home defense. 5.56 is great for home defense too, but .308 can be just as good IMO.


I would like to point out that the FS2000 makes for a great HD weapon as well, kudos on your choice. :)
 
By close combat I meant CQB fighting, in the general sense, not necessarily military. In this scenario, urban and specifically HD.
 
I like the idea of the RFB, but for CQB/HD in the suburban environment where I live, I prefer a 12ga with a load sufficient for home defense but with less risk of overpenetration than .308.
 
The RFB fits the home defense role quite nicely,
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I don't think so. My RFB has been back to Kel-Tec three times in addition to two broken part exchanges. It's longest string without a stoppage is 196 rounds and this is with cleaning every 60-100 rounds. Since the last broken part exchange its done 120 rounds without a failure, still counting.

Love the way it handles, it is very nice to shoot suppressed because of the short overall length, but it shoots lousy groups off sandbags (vertical stringing opens them up), and its reliability is so far from "battle worthy" I have to rate it "Gimmick".
 
Wally, i've been wondering about the accuracy and relibility of those things for some time. Thanks for your input.

They handle well in the hands, but you either NEED an optic of some kind, or your irons will have a very short sight radius. Mounting a magnified optic would kinda mess with the whole CQB thing, and close-coupled irons would make longer range stuff suck. And what's the point of a .308 that can't reach out a bit? So red dot or holographic is the order of the day, and i don't really like trusting life & home to something which requires batteries to work. So you get one of those tritium powered reflex sights, and you end up with a rediculously expensive range toy of dubious reliability.

Sorry. Was just kinda airing out the thought process that disqualified the gun for ME. Not to mention the whole vaporware thing. YMMV
 
Mounting a magnified optic would kinda mess with the whole CQB thing, and close-coupled irons would make longer range stuff suck. And what's the point of a .308 that can't reach out a bit?
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We think alike, its why I put a 1-4X Trijicon Accupoint on mine. No batteries, at 1X you can use it like a red dot, at 4x should be able to go out 300-400 yards easy.

I'll keep updating my experience, good or bad as these RFB threads pop up. Hope to run another 60-100 rounds through it in the next week or so, if the weather co-operates.
 
wally said:
I don't think so. My RFB has been back to Kel-Tec three times in addition to two broken part exchanges. It's longest string without a stoppage is 196 rounds and this is with cleaning every 60-100 rounds. Since the last broken part exchange its done 120 rounds without a failure, still counting.

Love the way it handles, it is very nice to shoot suppressed because of the short overall length, but it shoots lousy groups off sandbags (vertical stringing opens them up), and its reliability is so far from "battle worthy" I have to rate it "Gimmick".
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Thanks Wally for your feedback on this. Unreliability is a deal breaker and it is what can get people killed when they face armed intruder(s) with what they THOUGHT was a working firearm.

To generalize a bit, what is the overall opinion about Kel-Tec? I see that they have some really great ideas for products, and at least their listed prices seem reasonable, but my LGS can't get any because they have insufficient supply (versus the incredible demand these days), and comments about unreliability disappoint me when there seems to be so much potential with these great ideas (e.g., the SUB 2000 as a HD/Urban firearm).
 
Driftertank said:
Wally, i've been wondering about the accuracy and relibility of those things for some time. Thanks for your input.

They handle well in the hands, but you either NEED an optic of some kind, or your irons will have a very short sight radius. Mounting a magnified optic would kinda mess with the whole CQB thing, and close-coupled irons would make longer range stuff suck. And what's the point of a .308 that can't reach out a bit? So red dot or holographic is the order of the day, and i don't really like trusting life & home to something which requires batteries to work. So you get one of those tritium powered reflex sights, and you end up with a rediculously expensive range toy of dubious reliability.

Sorry. Was just kinda airing out the thought process that disqualified the gun for ME. Not to mention the whole vaporware thing. YMMV
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Your thought process is good. I like reading how people think things through because you can see the various issues that pertain.
 
I'm not going to say Wallys experience is incorrect in terms of reliability, because obviously he's had a bad experience. I would like to counter though, that other than dialing in the gas system, I've had only 3 failures in about 1000 rounds, all magazine related (or its an INCREDIBLE coincidence that they only occur with the one mag). That's reliable enough for me.
 
Hi - could you specify a bit more what the failures were, attributed to the magazine? Double feeds? Failure to Feed? Thanks.
 
Great idea, bad execution.

Several parts on my friend's RFB needed adjustment and it never worked quit right. After he sold it the gas block broke.

I'm waiting on the Tavor to be released in the US, personally.

BSW
 
Firearms that are held together with nuts and bolts all over the place don't inspire confidence in me. Every Kel-Tec offering falls into this category. Honestly, I wouldn't even care to shoulder and fire one if the opportunity was given to me.

I always held the same reservations about the XCR.
 
RFB is a nice design but given Keltek fails in every other execution i wouldn't waste my time. I doubt they will suddenly decide to improve their standards and qc for this specific item ecspecially given how far behind they are on filling orders. Not to mention reports of issues are already far higher than they should be, imo. Same goes for their new shotgun. If anything i'd certainly wait until its been out a bit longer.
 
Thanks; that is generally what I am hearing about Kel-Tec. A real shame. I guess in today's high-demand market, having to rush things out is negatively contributing to QC all around. Although if you think about it, due to the massive profitability of the firearm market these days, you'd think the manufacturers would actually IMPROVE quality. I am sure they (especially lower-priced manufacturers such as Kel-Tec and Hi-Point) can command higher profit margins to bring on more QC staffing (more jobs for Americans!) and processes.
 
I shot an early one (double digit serial number), and it wouldn't do more than 3 rounds in a row without a malfunction. Mostly failures to extract and/or eject. I still have a mallet labeled "Keltec" from that range trip (we needed it for opening the bolt). I spoke to Keltec at SHOT, and they offered to fix it (I assume it has some of the now-known issues from early production), but the owner has since passed away and I don't know who ended up with the gun.

My reaction after shooting it, malfs aside, was that it wasn't quite as comfortable to shoot as I'd expected. I would still buy one as long as I knew it had all the bug fixes applied and it wasn't over $800 or so.
 
DefiantDad said:
Thanks Wally for your feedback on this. Unreliability is a deal breaker and it is what can get people killed when they face armed intruder(s) with what they THOUGHT was a working firearm.

To generalize a bit, what is the overall opinion about Kel-Tec? I see that they have some really great ideas for products, and at least their listed prices seem reasonable, but my LGS can't get any because they have insufficient supply (versus the incredible demand these days), and comments about unreliability disappoint me when there seems to be so much potential with these great ideas (e.g., the SUB 2000 as a HD/Urban firearm).
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Yep, that is the gimmick. That they are actually a firearm manufacturer that is. With some rumored exception, it's not clear to me that they actually sell anything they market or show on the web site. I tried to purchase a Sub-2000 (Glock mag) and could not find one anywhere. I tried to see before purchase an RFB but no luck. Finally, though not my interest, the introduction of the KSG has been laughable.
Truth is, they have great potential. I love their designs but I recently posted that they remind me of Ferrari of old. Expensive, long delays in delivery, and you had to be FOF (friends of Ferrari) before they would even let you buy one.
Too bad. With some manufacturing and QC expertise, they could lead a minor revolution in the light weapons business.
B
 
Exactly. Damned shame. Could've, would've, should've.

There's also another word for it, vaporware...
 
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