Kel-Tec injuction on the Ruger LCP.

[cowssurf]

I was at a gun shop today, and I asked the guy if they would be getting in the LCP anytime soon. He said no and probably not ever. I asked why. He said because Ruger's being sued by Kel-Tec and they've got an injuction stopping further manufacturing. In my head, I was thinking, wow, this guy doesn't know anything. I said I didn't think that was possible because Kel-Tec didn't have a patent on the gun. He said it was so, but it didn't matter because they'd keep selling the Kel-Tecs because they're half the price anyways. Hmm. So the Kel-Tecs are selling for $150.

Ignorant gun shop employees are one thing, but the thing that really gets me is the poor customer service rendered by at least one person working in every local gun shop I've been to. What is with gun shops having rude employees that know nothing. Am I the only one who's experienced this? And I think Cabela's is the worst. Their guns are overpriced and the employees are always looking past you like they've got a hell of a lot of better things to do with their time.

 

[alamo]

I was at a gun shop today, and I asked the guy if they would be getting in the LCP anytime soon. He said no and probably not ever. I asked why. He said because Ruger's being sued by Kel-Tec and they've got an injuction stopping further manufacturing. In my head, I was thinking, wow, this guy doesn't know anything. I said I didn't think that was possible because Kel-Tec didn't have a patent on the gun. He said it was so,

What an idiot. Where do these guys hear things like that? Or is it just "voices" that they hear?

 

[Claude Clay]

S&W got legaled by glock over their sw9v-ve series; hear tell they paid out 7 figures to buy the rights to keep making them. who knows whats true anymore?
cabelas......ua take a # and wait for a fool. seems that way. but in CT ive gotten some deals on older 32's & what not. might be they price for a national average & some items are bargins in some areas. good luck if ua find it.

 

[DPris]

This is the second Internet mention of a suit against Ruger by Kel-Tec I've seen, so I checked.
Ruger's spokesman is unaware of any legal action against the company by Kel-Tec, and LCP production continues.
Denis

 

[CJ]

Thats ok. I was got a call from my shop (where I'm on the waiting list for an LCP) that they were recalled and it would be a while before they got one.

Checking into it, it was, of course, the SR9 that was recalled, so not sure if they misheard their supplier, or just think they're the same thing.

 

[XDShooter07]

You have to take what gun shop employees say with a grain of salt and form your own opinion on everything. That guy is probably a disgruntled Kel-Tec owner; don't take it personally guys I'm a Kel-Tec owner too; only for a couple days now but still am. When I bought my P32 I had to deal with two gun shop employees telling me it was a bad idea and an employee at another shop I'd looked at them at tell me it was a bad idea, but I did anyways. Went home and did the F&B, came back the next day to their range and put 100 rounds through it and it ran perfectly. Afterwards the guy that sold it to me asked me how it shot and I told him with a big smile on my face, "perfectly."

Everybody at gun shops has their opinions; I just have to wonder what the owners think of their employees trying to disuade a customer from a purchase. I even heard an employee there call a customer a moron because he was afraid of a certain round for a certain gun they were talking about. You could clearly tell the customer was military, but the employee continued to tell him how the round didn't exist. My buddy and I were looking at each other like, please whoop his .......

 

[W.E.G.]

Learn about "trade dress."

"trademark law, in the United States, through the Lanham Act, also protects slogans, phrases, packaging of products, and even the appearance of the product itself."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress

And example on point:
Colt sues American Western Arms
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_160_26/ai_92585796
Dated article, but result was a settlement in favor of Colt.

Not sure, but I think Colt did not directly prevail on this one:
Colt sues Bushmaster for use of the "M4" name
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_171_28/ai_n6123185
...although I think the discovery process revealed information as to parties who ended up being liable in ancillary claims for unauthorized disclosure of trade secrets.

 

[jocko]

ruger is safe

kt didn't protect their design or the gun. Ruger will flood the market within 6 months of lcps. Just a better gun IMO. That is why it is selling like hot cakes.

 

[DrLaw]

well, now I heard...

...that the LCP was going be introduced in .500 S&W caliber pretty soon.

Also, Ruger was bringing out a Mini-14 in .17 Mach2, Remington was going to reissue the Over and Under Derringer in .45-70 and all other major smaller calibers, Colt was going to resume production on the Python and Detective Specials, Smith & Wesson was getting rid of the gun locks, and Mauser was going to bring back the Broomhandle in response to a South American military order.

Yep, heard it all. I think I heard it on April 1 this year at a gun store that also is being investigated for supplying the Jewish Defense League and Crips, so it must be true.

The Doc is out now.

 

[Disaster]

From a trade standpoint, the Ruger LCP looks more like a plastic Seacamp than a Kel-tec. The grip is more rounded. There are already quite a few guns in this genera. I think the LCP is safe. Of course, in the good ole' USA, anyone can choose to sue anyone about anything. Whether they are successful is another story.

 

[Kilgor]

W.E.G.,

It would have nothing to do with trademarks, unless Keltec trademarked the "look" of the P-3AT and P32.

This would be an issue of patent infringement. Unfortunately for Keltec, my quick patent search found that they do not have a patent for either of the aforementioned pistols.

So, no go.

 

[jocko]

patent

I think the only thing that kel tec patented was their knife. Guess they forgot about their guns!!!!

 

[keano44]

Several years back I read the book by R.L. Wilson, "Ruger, and His Guns". I think remember reading at the time the book was written that the company Sturm, Ruger & Co. had never been successfully sued. I don't know if that has changed since then. I think the company lawyers would be smart enough not to get themselves into that kind of mess over copying a design illegally.
Understand, I'm not saying they didn't copy, just not illegally so they could get sued over it. After all, aren't most or many of Ruger's guns, variations to some degree from another makers guns? For example, certain traits and resemblances:
Luger---Mark I, II, III
Savage 99---Ruger Lever actions (William B. Ruger was a fan of the Savage 99)
M14---Mini 14, 30
Colt Peacemaker---Blackhawk

Ruger has many times in the past taken something done before, and improved upon it, or made something similar that would appeal to a large number of consumers.
How is it different with the LCP?
I must admit, I am slightly biased, I got mine (LCP) and several other Ruger's

 

[Shade00]

The question is, did Kel-tec, in designing its pistols, create anything novel that should be protected?

 

[cowssurf]

W.E.G., thanks for the admonition, and then following up by teaching me about "trade dress." As kilgor pointed out, I think Kel-Tec is SOL unless they actually "trade-dressed" their P3AT.

 

[skinewmexico]

Just a better gun IMO. That is why it is selling like hot cakes.

They're selling like hotcakes because a certain segment of the population has to have anything new the instant it comes out. And because in certain circles, it's socially acceptable to own certain brands, regardless of actual performance.

Face it, you could put a turd on a popsicle, label it Ruger (or Remington, or Winchester, or Savage), and a large number of people would line up to eat it.

 

[jocko]

yup

turd on a popsickle. humm, very interesting... does ruger make it or Smith & Wesson??

 

[old_ironsights]

There's gotta be a Dumb-**** University where attendance is mandated for gun store clerks.

I get in and out of Outdoor America as quickly as I can.

I made the mistake there recently of inquring about 9x18 Ultra ammunition. I was informed that "Ultra" was only a brand name and what I really wanted was just plain ol' 9x18, but that .380 was cheaper and would work just as well. ( These mental midgets carry guns, too )

 

[JohnMc]

Kel-Tec CNC Industries patents:
1 D527,788 Foldable bayonet
2 6,928,764 Grip extender for handgun

Ruger's got 99 or so. I guess they've got more lawyers, too.

 

[MCgunner]

I'm going to a gun show this weekend and if they have a P3AT or LCP (not likely) there for a good price, I might get one. I like Kel Tec the company and its consumer service and like my P11 a lot. I like Ruger, too, have 7 of 'em. I have no real bias here, will look for a deal and I think it'll be a while before Ruger catches up with demand and there are any "deals" on 'em. At a previous show there (this show is small and local) they had a P32 for $199, but I'm just not into .32 caliber, rather go with the .380 version. It was tempting, though.

turd on a popsickle. humm, very interesting... does ruger make it or Smith & Wesson??

Easy to tell....does it have a hole in the left side of the frame? Any MIM parts?

 

[DPris]

Once upon a time there was a legend about a well-known firearms maker back East who lost a multi-million-dollar lawsuit brought against the company by a man who did not heed traditional wisdom about leaving an empty chamber in front of the hammer on a single-action revolver.
Not long after, that very same company re-designed their revolvers to incorporate something called a transfer bar into the lockwork.
Denis

 

[keano44]

DPris
OK so I missed that one. It has been a long time since I read that book!

 

[DPris]

Denis