Kel Tec P11 12 round mags

[MCgunner]

I've been quite happy with my old first gen KT P11 since I bought it in 1996. I had the 10 round mags for it, but came upon 2 as new 12 rounders for 20 bucks, so I picked 'em up. Topped off, they nose dive and hang up the first rounds below the feed ramp with 3 loads I've tried, one with a near max OAL. The problem seems to be the follower, too much rocking motion to it from too short a skirt. The 10 rounders don't have this rock to 'em, longer followers. Both 10 and 12 round mags are the standard Mec Gar magazines.

Anyone know a fix? Should I just get two 10 round mag followers from KT and have two more 10 round spares? Is it just a problem with the first gen guns? I had heard this was a problem when I bought the mags, so it wasn't a total surprise. I WAS hoping they'd work, though. Figured 20 bucks was cheap enough to try.

I've already posted this on KTOG. Now I remember why I quit posting over there. It's slower than Christmas over there.

 

[HB]

Not sure what Mec-Gar's customer service is like but if you have time I'd give them a call. I'd imagine they would have a suggestion given the quality of their mags.

If that isn't fruitful I would just swap the followers for 10 rounders. Its a little gun anyway and reliability is more important that 2 extra bullets.

I am always amazed with my p32s capacity in all honesty. It is an iphone that holds 8 bullets and gives a jframe a run for its money in my pocket many days.

HB

 

[Hossfly72]

Thought about trimming down the follwoers? Maybe at an angle?
Just a random thought. I'm not a professional and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[MCgunner]

Thought about trimming down the follwoers? Maybe at an angle?

Can't see how that'd do anything, but make it worse.

 

[jhb]

I was thinking and i could be wrong that if they are the mecgars that keltec sells they will swap them. From what ive gathered some work and some don't. Pretty sure keltec will warranty their products though including their mags.

 

[Onward Allusion]

My experience with my 3 P11's is that the 12 rounders will work fine with hollowpoints due to the shorter OAL. For FMJ, the 12 round mags work fine with 11 loaded. Go figure.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Were the mags NEW or USED?

I'd think they were used, given the low price and the fact that the guns that use them have been out of production for quite a while... (When I had a P-11, I used the same mags without problems. I got the spacer from Kel-Tec that made the mag look like an extension of the grip.

Nose-diving is usually due to weak mag springs. Try getting Wolff replacement springs and see if that solves the problem. (And be sure that the tip of the spring, when installed, supports the front of the follower. Sometimes the springs get installed improperly...)

(If you take a couple of rounds out of the mag and they seem to work right, that's a possible signal that the springs are weak.)

 

[USAF_Vet]

Replace the followers and springs with S&W 5900 or 6900 series mag springs and followers. The P11 mags are based off the S&W double stack mags, and apparently are interchangeable. I'm eventually going to pick up a P11 myself. I like being able to share mags with my S&W winter carry.

 

[19-3Ben]

^^^ I was actually just about to ask about if MCgunner had tried 6906 mags, or 6906 mag followers in his KT mags.

 

[MCgunner]

I think I have a couple of crappy promag 5906 mags that wouldn't stay in the gun around somewhere. I might have tossed 'em, though, have to look around. I will try the follower. If I can't find 'em, I might order a couple of followers. The mags are longer than the mec gar mags, not sure how the springs will work.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Before you go to replacing or swapping springs or followers, make sure the ones in the problem mags are installed correctly. Somebody may have taken them apart to clean them, and installed the spring backwards. Be sure the front top of the mag spring supports the front the front of the follower.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Just a guess? I dunno but if they're wiggling back and forth, I would try to shim them with some felt. Something that causes minimal friction, but would take up the space that the follower is wiggling in. Never tried it... Just a dumb idea.

 

[cc-hangfire]

+1 on new, stronger springs. My P11 cycles much faster than my 3rd gen S&W's, so the mags aren't quite interchangeable. Same issue- the weaker & slower work fine w the larger & slower slides on the S&W's but cause the nose dives you describe w the P11.

 

[MCgunner]

+1 on new, stronger springs. My P11 cycles much faster than my 3rd gen S&W's, so the mags aren't quite interchangeable. Same issue- the weaker & slower work fine w the larger & slower slides on the S&W's but cause the nose dives you describe w the P11.

Mmm, thanks. I've bought 10 percent over springs for another auto from Wolff that turned out great. This is an option. I haven't had a chance to find my old S&W promag magazines to play with, but I don't hold a lot of hope for that.

 

[MCgunner]

Okay, I pulled the S&W 5906 Pro Mags apart (was amazed I actually found 'em) and the follower is a no go, won't work in the Mec Gar mags. The spring is longer, so I just used the Mec Gar hardware and replace the spring with the Pro Mag springs. The springs are longer as well as stiffer, but if I trim 'em, I might be right back to square one. They work fine, though, but capacity is only 11 rounds. That's okay, didn't have to order anything, made the new mags work, got some used out of those worthless Pro Mags, it's a win/win situation. I MIGHT get me some Wolf 10 percent heavier Mec Gar springs in the future, but I really don't see the extra round as being worth the bother. The gun will be 12 rounds on tap with the one in the spout. I'll fire it tomorrow after I get home from church, but it feeds off the magazine, so I am sure it'll be fine.

Anyway, thanks all for the suggestions and the help!

 

[MCgunner]

Well, bummer, jumped the gun. They feed okay off the top, but now they're nose diving part way through the magazine. Hell, I don't need 'em anyway. 10 rounds is enough. I'll either chunk 'em or stash 'em for 10 round followers someday, though I hate so spend any more money on the POSs. I don't need 'em, got 3 10 round mags for the thing that are flawless.

What ever ya do, don't waste your money on the 12 round mec gar mags for the P11. 10 rounds is what the gun was designed for, after all.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I never saw an explanation: were the problem mags NEW when you purchased them, or from one of those trays at a gun show, where you can't tell.

Pro-Mag springs are generally their weak point -- so if you have problems in the future, look to getting some springs from Wolff. (www.gunsprings.com)

And nose-diving is generally brought on by weak-springs. Using Pro-Mag springs may just be a temporary solution.

 

[MCgunner]

I bought 'em from an individual who posts at taurusarmed.net.

I'm quite convinced at this point it's the followers are too short. Not much I can do to make 'em work, but turn 'em into 10 rounders if I could get followers, which might not be possible. If I get the itch, though, I might buy some Wolff springs. I put 10 percent over springs in some pro mag Ruger magazines and they work great in my P85. If THAT don't work, screw it.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I bought 'em from an individual who posts at taurusarmed.net.

I'm quite convinced at this point it's the followers are too short. Not much I can do to make 'em work, but turn 'em into 10 rounders if I could get followers, which might not be possible. If I get the itch, though, I might buy some Wolff springs. I put 10 percent over springs in some pro mag Ruger magazines and they work great in my P85. If THAT don't work, screw it.

Were they new or used? Implicitly, I'd say used. Followers too short seems to be a possibility, but not something you generally encounter with mags from an otherwise reputable firm.

Try swapping springs with one of your known "GOOD" mags. If the problem persists, your diagnosis is likely correct; if it goes away, get new springs. (The cost of new followers, if you can find them --NUMRICH is an option -- may be your only option. Some of the parts of old mags cost almost as much as old mags. Maybe you end up with good 10-rounders. )

 

[MCgunner]

They're used, but look like new, no wear in the bluing. The guy had sold his P11, probably couldn't shoot DA, unsure why, but that's common. "OMG, this trigger sux!" I don't know that he ever even tried 'em, but if he did, they probably didn't work and he knew it. But, live and learn.

Like I say, I've read this complaint before in the past, the nose diving rounds from the 12 round mag. The 10 round followers do NOT nose dive. They're long enoogh to prevent that. It's like high performance slipper pistons in an engine build, get the skirts too short and you get rocking of the piston and big time wear. Shorter the skirt, the more they rock back and forth.

Numrich has saved my bacon more'n once. Try finding parts for a Winchester 1400 shotgun anywhere else.