Kel Tec pain

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As compared to say a Walther or a Berretta or a Smith & Wesson or a Khar Arms or an H&K or a Ruger or a Glock or a Sigarms or a Springfield or a Kimber among others.
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Kinda like comparing a BMW or a Jaguar to a Volkswagen Beetle. If you expect a Cadillac for Yugo prices you might, just maybe, be expecting a little much. ;)

I can only speak for myself but I've never had a problem with Kel-Tecs or seen anyone with problems. My mother has a P32 for a pocket gun. Never failed. Though it's not pleasant on the hands.
 
rjdavin ~

Obviously these aren't going to be high round count endurance guns, but they are neither designed nor intended to be high round count endurance guns. They aren't distant accuracy guns either, but again, they aren't designed or intended to be distant accuracy guns. They are designed and intended to have a few rounds fired through them, and then be honorably retired to a pocket holster for very discreet concealed carry. And they fill that role quite well.

I'd love to join you in hating Kel Tecs, but in all honesty I cannot do it.
Now if you want to say, "These guns are lousy for high-round count range work, and they suck at distant accuracy..." -- well, I'll join your parade. It's true enough. But the dang little guns work just fine when used as they're intended.

Plus, KelTec is well known for excellent customer service. I shouldn't have to point out to you that not all of the other gun companies you list are known for the same.

pax
 
I think you'll find, if you talk to long-time users, that the kel-Tec guns have service lives (length of service or rounds fired) that are comparable to guns offered by the other big-name makers. I would expect some of them to OUTLAST other guns, if only because there are fewer things to break or wear.

In fact, they have lifetime warranties -- and its not for the lifetime of the gun...

I've been using them off and on for years, and have yet to encounter what I'd call a structural failure. I've personally yet to experience the first problem that wasn't of my own creation -- and nothing that required me to send it back to Kel-Tec. I carried a P-11 for several years and shot it a lot.

People who don't shoot them or don't have them just assume that they're cheaply made and won't hold up. There are many thousands of users who will disagree -- and when some support is needed, Kel-Tec's customer service is as good as any. Maybe better.

The guns are light because they were designed with that in mind, from the start. They are unique, aluminimum-framed guns with polymer covers. That's a different approach than anyone else takes, and accounts for at least part of their light weight.

Over the years, quite a few buyers have been put off by problems; that continues to happen, but on a greatly diminished scale. When I bought my first Kel-Tec about 7-8 years ago, complaints were far more common than they are today, and the factory, today, is cranking them out as fast as they can. Visit the Kel-Tec Owners Group website sometime to learn more.

They look cheaply made. They're not. They're just a very simple, unique design.

Now... if you want to complain about the P-11 trigger, I'll be right there with you, but there are a lot of guns with triggers I can't stand (including a new Browning Hi-Power I tried recently.) The trigger was why I got rid of my P-11, but I am sometimes tempted to get another.

I just got a Kahr P9 recently, and I love it, so I'll probably NOT go back to a P-11. But you have to realize that the P9 sells for almost 3 times the price of a P-11, and holds 5 less rounds in a flush-fit mag, and 8 less if you use a S&W 59 mag in the P-11, with a spacer.
 
Yep! Those cheap pieces of junk KelTecs sure are dangerous. Oh! Wait a minute,____

usp45-r.jpg


why that's not a cheap Keltec! I do believe that's one of those expensive H&K guns!
The point is, plenty of very expensive guns blow up, but I have yet to see a KelTec blow up I wish one of you posters that like to knock the KT's would show me one that has kaboomed!
I have put over 3000 rounds through one of my P-3AT and it is stil 100% reliable and I have only had to replaced the recoil spring at this point.
I shot 50 rounds through the P-3AT this morning after putting 100 rounds through my really fine XD9. Unlike the really fine XD9, I can allways have the P-3AT in my pocket and feel sure it will go bank if I ever need it.
 
rjdavin,

As far as insinuating that the Kel-Tec is a bottom feeder due to it's inexpensive price, and low quality because of that price.....I tend to disagree. First of all I own a Kel-Tec P11 9mm. The gun has around 3000 rounds of 147gr. Hydrashoks through it by now, with zero failures or problems. Since I bought the gun as a BUG (Back Up Gun) to my larger Primary CCW's that are all .45acp's, a Sig Sauer, Kimber, Springfield Armory, Para Ordnance & Taurus, I only ask the Kel-Tec to fulfill that purpose. I have complete confidence in the gun, as do about a dozen of my shooting buddies, that have them as well. Some have the .380 as well and love the gun.

If price were the determining factor then many gunmakers would be out of business. There are inexpensive guns out there that work well for their intended uses.

I have friends that have the high end guns ranging from $1500-3500 dollars that have problems right out of the box. Some have sent them back for repairs or "adjustments" many times. My Kel-Tec has never been back to the manufacturer, for any reason.

I also carry a Taurus Millenniun Pro as a BUG. I bought this gun new for $275.00 and am working on about 1800 rounds of 230gr. JHP ammo through it. Again I have had zero problems with the gun. This gun will probably replace the Kel-Tec in the future simply due to the cailber is my preference and matches my primary CCW's.
 
Kel-Tec Fans

Gee, I'm sorry I started this. Are any of you aware that these items aren't approved for sale in at least 6 States that I have absolute certainty of? There are more "thrifty" gunowners than I figured. I get it, they're not accurate or dependable and not fancy in composition or fit & function, but commendable to the end, huh? Listen, I don't mean to be contrary, but they are cheap replicas of firearms and that's really all there is to it. Yes, I call Yugos, Kias junk too. I guess the difference is that I shoot everything I own often and most times depend on whichever I have at the time to keep me/mine alive. I demand accuracy, performance and quality. I am not a dreamer and have no illusions that I can spend $100 and get a $900 product. I'm ok with that. I know I will reap what I sow. I have also however, been in the firearms business all of my adult life and shot more and more often than most I know of. I know junk when I see it. I have sold them in the hundreds and taken them back that way as well. I have shelled out thousands of dollars paying gunsmiths for non-warranty work and paying for shipping to recieve warranty work and end up with angry customers that somehow blame me for the shoddy manufacturing of an inferior product. This costs me more money to repair my relationship with my customer. You can have them. If I am to tell you the truth, they're junk. That's only my opinion, yet I believe it to be a qualified one. How many of you own Lorcins?
 
Are any of you aware that these items aren't approved for sale in at least 6 States that I have absolute certainty of?
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:rolleyes: That's no argument.

In the state where I live, Class-2 firearms aren't approved for sale, either. Are all Class-2s junk??

(No, of course they're not.)

In NYC, it's all but illegal to own firearms of any type, and illegal to own a handgun. Does that mean all handguns are junk??

(No, of course it doesn't.)

Could cite more. Not going to bother.

Note: It'd be nice to see this thread get back to the original purpose of the threadstarter, which was to discuss ways to make the P3AT more comfortable to shoot. Suggest we start a separate thread if we're going to continue this little brouhaha.

pax
 
I've seen/heard/experienced enough problems from high-dollar Kimbers, Colts, Wilson's, etc. to know that spending $ to make yourself feel good about your purchase doesn't necessarily mean you aren't going to have problems. Matter of fact, it tends to tick me off more when I spend that kind of money and have problems, which has happened. Go to the 1911 forum, check out some of the Wilson, Les Baer, Colt boards, and tell me that spending $800 more than the price of a Kel-Tec gets you reliability and quality. It's not necessarily true.

They are what they are. Like any mass produced product, some will be lemons. While others will be leaving their pistols at home because they are too big or heavy to carry, mine will be in my pocket when I need it. :D
 
rjdavin, I bet the $900 Rohrbaugh is also illegal in those states too.
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I think it's time to put up or___

How many people can you show us that have been injured because their KT's failed?

Come on all you anti KelTec people!

KelTec manufactures 1000 P-3AT's a week (52,000 a year) and most are carried daily so there must be bodys all over the place, because according to you those KT's are all dangerous junk.

I just want to see one instance of an injury or death because a KelTec failed (52,000 a year), where are all the bodys?
 
Finger extensions on the extra magazines are a big help during long range sessions. The NAA (my preference, next to the P-3AT) requires two snips of a fingernail clipper. The Bersa fits without modification.
p-3atwmags.gif

I know that Kel-Tec pistols can’t be sold states that require empty shell casings and external safeties. It makes me appreciate Kel-Tec even more because they won’t buckle under.
 
The first time I shoot about 100-125 rounds through mine, the abraded skin on the web of my hand heals into a nice callus in only about a week. After that, shooting it is an almost pain-free proposition!

Now, if I could just get to the range more and KEEP that callus in place, I wouldn't have to repeat step 1 every so often... :banghead:

Seriously though, I find that shooting 50 rounds through my P-3AT, or even 75, isn't bad. Also, mine has no grip modification or magazine extension. I keep it stock, in order to maintain the smallest footprint possible. The only addition I have on it is a P-Sight, of course!
 
Though most top competition shooters don't put anything on their grips, Agrip in particular is a great enhancement.


Bestdefense.com
 
Excuse ME, Mr. Tarpley. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, but they ARE chintzey junk.
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Have you OWNED and shot a Kel-Tec, or is this another of those "I don't like them 'cause I don't like them" tirades?

I've had far more problems with Berretta Tomcats than I've ever had with Kel-Tecs. Are they chintzy junk, too?

Tomcat problems that I've personally experience or seen in the guns owned by friends included busted frame and busted firing pins (despite using snap caps). One of my two Tomcats was replaced under warranty, and the other was sold because I had lost all confidence in the darned thing. The slide came askew during recoil, while at the range -- and the only way I could get it to work again was to drive the slide forward with a rubber mallet. It truly locked up.

Had that little problem happened during an up-close-and-personal discussion with a bad guy, a rock would have been a better self-defense weapon.

I've put a lot of rounds through several Kel-Tecs, and haven't had the first problem I could attribute to the gun. And contrary to what PAX said, every Kel-Tec I've used, owned, or know of, is in fact has proved to be a long-term, high round gun. Kel-Tecs are pretty darned durable. And if they ever do wear or break, there's a lifetime Kel-Tec warranty to fix the problem.

As for improved comfort -- making the front of the trigger guard a little larger would do wonders for me. My finger hits the inside front of the trigger guard during recoil. I've given serious thought to getting some of the stuff used to modify Glocks (from Brownells), and enlarging it, myself.
 
I will definately emphithize (sp?) with you on how the little 380 stings the palm of your hand... which also one reason I carry it. For how light, small, 6+1 capacity it is, it holds a decent amount of kick and gives me a bit of peace-of-mind while jogging in this not-so-great neighborhood.

On my next paycheck, I plan on getting some of those finger extension things as well as a few extra magazines, but I really don't htink that's going to take much bite out, just help with keeping the little bugger in my hand!

-Colin
 
Keltecs

The Keltec P3AT is unpleasant with hot loads but if you're really into pain, try the Keltec P11 with the 357 SIG conversion. You won't want to shoot a magazine full.
Forget about quality comparisons with guns in other classes. These pistols stand alone in power to size & weight ratios. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Now that Keltec has come up with a functioning extractor, the P3AT has become quite reliable.
 
I had a new P99 in 45acp HAD! The recoil spring was rubbing on the barrel and was putting metal flakes inside the gun. I sent it in to S&W to have it fixed, they sent it back with a new recoil spring, no letter note nothing. I went ot my range outback and fired 20 rounds, guess what, same problem. I fired 100 rounds tore down thre gun and cleaned it, fired another 200 and found that the spring was about 20% gone on the top front. I also have a Keltec P32 and still have it with no problems, ANY and EVERY gun company has had losers, difference is some fix their problems some dont.
 
...don't forget that SIGs rust, 1911's jam, USP's break firing pins, Delta Elites crack their frames, and Berettas break their locking blocks right before putting the back half of the slide through your bridgework.
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-Tamara

Like Walt I had more problems with a Tomcat than my P-11. I think I am the only person that has NOT shot a P32 or P3AT. :)

I have shot my P-11 a LOT , guesstimate - near 20k rds. I ran 2K in two days just recently. Piddling, doing some drills, ringing steel to 40 yds and some groundhogs came out to offer some fun. :p

I grew up learning to shoot Revolvers DA. Still think learning to do makes one a better shooter no matter what platform they trasition to later.

JShirley said it best recently - If you learn to shoot a P-11 well, you are gonna get some trigger time for sure. :p ( something to that effect- sorry John I probably goofed it up.)

For ME - the P-11 is a niche gun, it is a tool for a task.

Basically less expensive than many choices out there, and basically a Plastic DA revolver. 9mm ammo is cheap , found everywhere.

Niches:

Well I know some are in locked tool boxes, some are in hiding places, a gun for a grown kids with CCW to use when they fly home to see parents, and dont' want to hassle with TSA and doing the firearm reporting bit. Maybe a friend flys in with CCW good here and they too have CCW without flying hassles.

I know a Dr. and Carpenter, they actually prefer the Glock 26. They often carry a P-11. Doc likes to ride his motorcyle in our humid Southern climate, same humid climate the carpenter works in for new construction - ain't no air conditioning in new construction. So with these in belly bands, they don't care about the sweat cause by humidity...fills a niche for them.

CCW as backup to long guns while on the farm, ranch or hunting. IN the event 2 legged predators are met and well, sometimes the getting to and fro - one never knows.

Easy to remove mag, empty chamber and if need remove bbl, when put into a lockable box in a vehicle if the person needs to travel thru an unfriendly state.
Even though say another semi would allow this, if the vehicle was stolen, the P-11 is less loss than Glock 26, or for sure a Sig or somesuch. Revo are great, some feel the loss of revolver would be "greater" and the fact is kinda hard to remove the bbl off a revolver to make the gun unusable if found in a stolen vehicle.

NO Holy Grails on firearms or ammo - like Tamara said , they all suck to some degree. :)
 
The P-32 is quite a bit of fun to shoot.

If only .32 ACP wasn't so expensive...

The P3AT yanks my trigger finger (trigger slap something fierce) and I find it painful to shoot, but your milage may vary.

While KelTec has made some lemons, so has every other manufacturer out there.

I had one of the first batch of USP .45 pistols made.

After my first range session when I was cleaning it I found that the left rear slide rail had broken off. After discussing this with our HK rep on the phone I found about a recall, and sent it back, to be replaced with a completely different pistol.

Make sure your particular KelTec works with the ammunition you intend to carry in it and you will be ok.
 
P-3AT hurts? Try these two cures:

I ordered two Bersa finger extensions for my mags first. The NAA .380 finger extensions also work. That makes for a very secure 3-finger grip with the pinkey resting beneath.
Second, I made a "poor man's handall" using a piece of bicycle tubing. I wrapped it up around the entire grip with a small space cut out for the mag release. The diamond checkering can really scuff your hands up. With the piece of bicycle tubing covering all of the checkering, end of problem.
Total price for the cure? About $3.

And RJDAVIN: Don't show your ignorance by making the blanket assertion that ALL Kel-Tec products are junk.
Kel-Tec has sold over 100,000 P32's alone. The ratio of complaints to units sold has to be so insignificant as to not even register. I've owned a P11, P32, and P-3AT. The guns are designed for close-quarter self-defense. They have no equals for their combination of value, weight, concealability, and small size. Cheap is not the same as inexpensive. As far as them not being sold in 6 states, that is because they lack an external safety. Please don't make any more baseless, unfounded opinions here.....okay?
 
Keltec DOES have a finger extension for the P32/P3aT in the store. IMO the btter solution is the 1 round mag extension because the finger extension is a pokin' thing that also makes the pistols seem bigger, which defeats the purpose.

RJDavin,

I think that you're trolling.

You keep mentioning Lorcin guns, but those are not Keltec guns.

It's a shame that you have elected to not sell what has become one of the top ten on BATF's list of hot sellers because it's one of those cases in which "All them people must know somethin'", all them people being the gun buyers who have put Keltec on the top of the sale charts for more than two years running. I did not think that Keltec was one of the companies that make unreasonable demands of their dealers, or are quick to refuse a dealer's request to distribute their product - without good cause....

I'll submit that I've been in the business of selling and repairing firearms longer than you have, by your statements. In any case your claims of warranty submissions for KELTEC pistols (we don't care about your supposed experience with Lorcin or any of the other cheap and no longer sold or allowed to be sold pistols, the "Saturday Night Specials" that seem to have been a mainstay for you in your claimed years of gun selling - I wonder, as an aside, did you by chance sell those guns from the back of your pickup truck at high schools, or did you have a large coat with numerous pockets sewn in to carry your wares?) are unsupported in here by you not having provided any sort of documentation of them. It may interest you to know that Keltec denies having received high numbers of warranty claims from ANY SINGLE outlet. This is not to say that there are no warranty claims, only to say that those claims have not been grouped in any way so as to be measurable as a problem with a particular area of the country or a particular dealer outlet. So where are your warranty submissions anyway, mailed to Lorcin?

Now look, I'll be friendly. Is it possible that you have mistakedly classed Keltec products, which you don't know, with Lorcin products which you apparently know quite well?

If so, I'd submit that you are discussing lemons while we are discussing grapes. You like grapes don't you?
 
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