Kel Tec RDB --What's up?

[wally]

Every last review I've read/seen has exclaimed that the trigger is remarkably good --for any auto-loading rifle

Not a chance unless mine is the worst one to ever escape the factory!

Let's put it this way, any bullpup trigger on a $500 AR would be a major problem and something every "reviewer" would harp upon. On a $1200-2500 gun, they don't talk about it so much.

I've only dry fired mine, hope to get out tomorrow weather permitting, but I'd say its 7-8 lbs with a long take-up and significant creep. As I said, on a $500 AR you'd hear little but how bad the the trigger is no matter how good the rest of the gun was!

OTHO as far as my other bullpups go, it seems significantly better than average, but after actually shooting, its reset could change my opinion, something hard to really evaluate with dry fire.

 

[barnbwt]

Not doubting your experience, but you appear to be in the great minority, or rather, have finely hewn trigger fingers that can feel a pea 'neath twelve mattresses --I only read of crisp, clean breaks with little takeup, that would be respectable for anything short of the 500$ drop-in match hair-triggers (which is an unrealistic expectation for a stock rifle anyway). That said, reviewers generally can't accurately describe any trigger pull for jack, and even fewer both to properly gauge it.

TCB

 

[wally]

I shot the RDB some today. The trigger reset is not an issue, the long take-up is annoying, but a good reset makes take-up a minor issue.

Shot it side-by-side with my S&W M&P (probably my worst AR trigger -- 100% factory stock), no doubt, the AR trigger is crisper and all around better, but the RDB trigger is very good for a bullpup.

The RDB needed more gas with the ammo I had, after that adjustment I had no more issues. It grouped well enough that I'll probably get a scope for it -- I just used my old Barska 1-4X that has been on a lot of rifles while I decide if I want a scope or red-dot. If I decide I want a scope, I want something better than that Barska, but its been a useful starting point and doesn't represent significant money when sitting on a shelf.

The M&P was being zeroed for the Aimpoint PRO that I bought with the EOTech "buy back" money -- I kept three of my four as I like them despite the poor battery life (AA are cheap and plentiful), the one I returned used weird N batteries and had the uneven illumination of the 65 moa circle issue so I was glad to be rid of it.

I was disappointed by the POA/POI shift suppressed vs. unsuppressed with the RDB, any shift with the M&P would need more than 5-shot groups to detect. The RDB was like 3.5" higher. My .308 RFB shows minimal shift, so I was a bit surprised by this.

 

[bikemutt]

I was disappointed by the POA/POI shift suppressed vs. unsuppressed with the RDB, any shift with the M&P would need more than 5-shot groups to detect. The RDB was like 3.5" higher. My .308 RFB shows minimal shift, so I was a bit surprised by this.

Related only by caliber and maker, my SU-16C is the same way. Any muzzle device, including a suppressor results in a 4" drop in my case. I have no idea why but, as long as it's consistent, I'm OK with it.

 

[barnbwt]

I wonder if maybe those muzzle threads aren't as concentric as they could be (just not enough to strike baffles). Only explanation I can think of for why one gun would react so differently, unless the KT barrel is particularly skinny or long & prone to harmonic effects from the silencer weight.

 

[wally]

I wonder if maybe those muzzle threads aren't as concentric as they could be (just not enough to strike baffles). Only explanation I can think of for why one gun would react so differently,

That was the conventional wisdom until suppressors became so popular, its just impossible to predict, and is only an issue if you plan to shoot suppressed and unsuppressed switching back and forth often, as you just maintain suppressed and unsuppressed zeros -- much as you would for different ammo brands and bullet weights.

My experience is a large shift is the exception, the RDB is only my second example of an annoyingly large shift, the other being my Draco SBR AK.

I move my cans among a variety of guns.

I measure (check) concentricity with a length of precision ground drill rod before shooting a new combination and find little correlation between how well centered it is vs how much POA/POI shift I observe.

In fact I observe the least shift (not detectable in 10 shot groups at 100 yards) with my RRA NM AR rifle, but I debated and repeated my check many times before actually shooting it suppressed.

Here is my thread from when I first got my 5.56 suppressor and started checking:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=723447


The RDB & RFB gas systems adjust by letting more gas escape (vent) instead of letting less gas through the port, I attribute this as the reason they generally shoot unimpressive groups off sandbags, the RDB doesn't seem quite so bad so far, but I've shot significantly better groups at 50 yards with the RFB kneeling than off a bench with sandbags, I'd have assumed it a fluke but I've done it multiple times.

unless the KT barrel is particularly skinny or long & prone to harmonic effects from the silencer weight.

SUppressor weight is probably the most common reason for a shift, but this will shift low instead of high. It is complicated (harmonics) and it is what it is for any gun/suppressor combination.

 

[barnbwt]

Interesting, I didn't realize they favored the FAL style gas metering scheme. I could see how that might respond differently to back pressure than a restrictor type.