Kel-Tec shotguns?

[Sniper66]

A friend asked me what type of shotgun would be a good, under-the-bed HD shotgun. I've heard a bit, but not much about Kel-Tec HD shotguns. What can you tell me about them? Your experience?
I'd probably prefer a pump vs a semi. Other options?

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Get a Mossberg Shockwave and pack it with minishell buck loads. Mount a tactical light to it and TRAIN with it.

 

[DustyGmt]

I can say that if you're used to traditional pump guns anything from Kel tec is going to feel like a weird space age movie prop and nothing Kel Tec ever comes up with will ever be as reliable as a good old pump shotgun. 870/500/590

I think an 870 or a 500/590 with 18" bbl would be a good option but that's just because it's what I have and like.

 

[12Bravo20]

Get a Mossberg Shockwave and pack it with minishell buck loads. Mount a tactical light to it and TRAIN with it.

I can say that if you're used to traditional pump guns anything from Kel tec is going to feel like a weird space age movie prop and nothing Kel Tec ever comes up with will ever be as reliable as a good old pump shotgun. 870/500/590

I think an 870 or a 500/590 with 18" bbl would be a good option but that's just because it's what I have and like.

I have no experience with a Kel-Tec shotgun. But I can't lie, the announcement of a 410 version of the KSG has peeked my interest.


I will add to what they said:

As far as the old argument on an 870 vs a 500/590, go with what fits you the best. You won't go wrong with the 870, 500, or 590.

Mind you my HD setup is a couple of 410 Mossberg's. I have a Mossberg 500E with an 18" cylinder bore barrel along with a Shockwave with a 14" cylinder bore barrel. The 500 is setup for my wife with a Mossberg 510 stock installed. I use it or the Shockwave.

With the Shockwave, I use the Push/Pull method when shooting it. The Push/Pull method is where one holds the firearm at arms length pushing out with the support hand while pulling in with the shooting hand. This is how we were taught to use the short witness protection type NFA shotguns while I was in the military. We mostly used them fro breeching doors though.

And no matter what brand or type of shotgun you decide to go with, make sure that you properly train with it. Training is key with any firearm. You want to be proficient in its use.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I have no experience with a Kel-Tec shotgun. But I can't lie, the announcement of a 410 version of the KSG has peeked my interest.


I will add to what they said:

As far as the old argument on an 870 vs a 500/590, go with what fits you the best. You won't go wrong with the 870, 500, or 590.

Mind you my HD setup is a couple of 410 Mossberg's. I have a Mossberg 500E with an 18" cylinder bore barrel along with a Shockwave with a 14" cylinder bore barrel. The 500 is setup for my wife with a Mossberg 510 stock installed. I use it or the Shockwave.

With the Shockwave, I use the Push/Pull method when shooting it. The Push/Pull method is where one holds the firearm at arms length pushing out with the support hand while pulling in with the shooting hand. This is how we were taught to use the short witness protection type NFA shotguns while I was in the military. We mostly used them fro breeching doors though.

And no matter what brand or type of shotgun you decide to go with, make sure that you properly train with it. Training is key with any firearm. You want to be proficient in its use.

I am guessing you have family members who would have trouble using a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun? In my humble opinion, the entire point of utilizing a shotgun in the home is the potency of the rounds fired. Not saying .410 isn’t potent, but a proper 12 or 20 gauge buckshot load blows it out of the water ballistically speaking. Even the reduced recoil buckshot loads are excellent.

 

[kje54]

Get a Mossberg Shockwave and pack it with minishell buck loads. Mount a tactical light to it and TRAIN with it.

Personally I recommend people go to both a local LSG to handle shotguns & rent shotguns to know what one is dealing with when firing it. A lot of people don't like shotguns that can't be shouldered, I'm one of them. So it's best to let them try out as many types & bores as they can before selecting one they may not be comfortable with and never use.

 

[12Bravo20]

I am guessing you have family members who would have trouble using a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun? In my humble opinion, the entire point of utilizing a shotgun in the home is the potency of the rounds fired. Not saying .410 isn’t potent, but a proper 12 or 20 gauge buckshot load blows it out of the water ballistically speaking. Even the reduced recoil buckshot loads are excellent.

Yes I do. Both my wife and myself are disabled. She has MS and I have arthritis and fibromyalgia along with multiple shoulder injuries. So a 410 works best for both of us.

And do not knock a 3" 410 shell loaded with 5 pellets of either 00 or 000 buckshot. The 5 pellets out of a 3" 410 shell are moving close to the same speed as 9 pellets out of a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell. And I get great patterns with 5 pellets of 000 buckshot out of a 3" 410 shell along with plenty of penetration. I have found that 00 buckshot does better out of a 410 full choke barrel while 000 buckshot does better out of a 410 cylinder bore barrel.

Here are some photos of how the pattern is from my 500 with the 18.5" barrel at 7 yards, 15 yards, and 25 yards. The target at 7 yards and 15 yards is one shot each while the 25 yard target is 3 shots.

 

[12Bravo20]

Personally I recommend people go to both a local LSG to handle shotguns & rent shotguns to know what one is dealing with when firing it. A lot of people don't like shotguns that can't be shouldered, I'm one of them. So it's best to let them try out as many types & bores as they can before selecting one they may not be comfortable with and never use.

This is very true. The Mossberg Shockwave and similar smoothbore firearms are not for everyone. The Kel-Tec KSG is the same length as the Shockwave and it can be shouldered. A standard shotgun will definitely be longer and harder to maneuver in tight spaces. With anything, it is a trade off as they all have their pro's and con's.

 

[DustyGmt]

Yes I do. Both my wife and myself are disabled. She has MS and I have arthritis and fibromyalgia along with multiple shoulder injuries. SO a 410 works best for both of us.

And do not knock a 3" 410 shell loaded with 5 pellets of either 00 or 000 buckshot. The 5 pellets out of a 3" 410 shell are moving close to the same speed as 9 pellets out of a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell. And I get great patterns with 5 pellets of 000 buckshot out of a 3" 410 shell along with plenty of penetration. I have found that 00 buckshot does better out of a 410 full choke barrel while 000 buckshot does better out of a 410 cylinder bore barrel.

Here are some photos of how the pattern is from my 500 with the 18.5" barrel at 7 yards, 15 yards, and 25 yards. The target at 7 yards and 15 yards is one shot each while the 25 yard target is 3 shots.
View attachment 1138124 View attachment 1138122 View attachment 1138123

Very interesting. I never really considered the 410 except for a brief consideration of a Judge revolver that I quickly abandoned after shooting one with 3" .410. After a cylinder full of those I decided against that, lol.

But a 12ga is extremely unwieldy and impractical for my wife and daughter, my wife shot reasonably well with a youth model 1100 in 20ga but I bet all three of my girls would be very proficient with the very mild recoil of the .410

I just don't ever see any mossberg 500's or 870's in .410. I'm going to look around and see if I can find one

Eta: I would never discount the lethality of a .410. There was a small kid a few towns over from me that was regularly getting thumped on by his drunk abusive dad. The dad came home especially drunk and beat the brother unconscious and was working on mom with a belt buckle and the young boy ended it with a single shot of 3" 410 00bk to the chest. He took a few steps backwards, slid down the wall and died.

 

[DustyGmt]

This is very true. The Mossberg Shockwave and similar smoothbore firearms are not for everyone. The Kel-Tec KSG is the same length as the Shockwave and it can be shouldered. A standard shotgun will definitely be longer and harder to maneuver in tight spaces. With anything, it is a trade off as they all have their pro's and con's.

Although the Super Bantam 500's have really short youth stocks and look like they would be very maneuverable in tighter spaces. They also have extended forearms for others in the home with shorter arms reach for pumping the action.

 

[12Bravo20]

I took and installed a Mossberg 510 stock onto my Model 500 for my wife. I am also using the 510 extension. She is 5' 2" and has short arms, she has no issues reaching the forearm and racking the slide.

With any type of firearm, going to a shop and seeing what fits the shooter the best is important.

Now I do not use factory ammo in any of my 410s. I reload my own buckshot shells along with all of my hunting loads. I am getting around 1000 FPS out of the 5 pellet 000 buckshot loads.

 

[kje54]

A friend asked me what type of shotgun would be a good, under-the-bed HD shotgun. I've heard a bit, but not much about Kel-Tec HD shotguns. What can you tell me about them? Your experience?
I'd probably prefer a pump vs a semi. Other options?

I love my KelTec KS7 (12 gauge) with a Limbsaver recoil pad on it. The drawbacks? The Limbsaver adds roughly 1" to the LOP and the KS7 & KSGs are bullpup designs so don't expect the triggers to be stellar. The primary positive is they are very maneuverable in tight spaces due to their overall length and the Limbsaver reduces felt recoil up to 70%.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Yes I do. Both my wife and myself are disabled. She has MS and I have arthritis and fibromyalgia along with multiple shoulder injuries. So a 410 works best for both of us.

And do not knock a 3" 410 shell loaded with 5 pellets of either 00 or 000 buckshot. The 5 pellets out of a 3" 410 shell are moving close to the same speed as 9 pellets out of a 2 3/4" 12 gauge shell. And I get great patterns with 5 pellets of 000 buckshot out of a 3" 410 shell along with plenty of penetration. I have found that 00 buckshot does better out of a 410 full choke barrel while 000 buckshot does better out of a 410 cylinder bore barrel.

Here are some photos of how the pattern is from my 500 with the 18.5" barrel at 7 yards, 15 yards, and 25 yards. The target at 7 yards and 15 yards is one shot each while the 25 yard target is 3 shots.
View attachment 1138124 View attachment 1138122 View attachment 1138123

Very nice. Sounds like a .410 bore suits your needs just fine.

 

[lemaymiami]

For 12 bravo... What was the actual size of each pattern -and / or the size of the targets you show? With a standard improved cylinder 12 ga 00buck, 18" barrel riot guns I'm familiar with- the pattern spread the shot one inch per meter from the muzzle.. 7" at 7 meters, etc.

 

[12Bravo20]

For 12 bravo... What was the actual size of each pattern -and / or the size of the targets you show? With a standard improved cylinder 12 ga 00buck, 18" barrel riot guns I'm familiar with- the pattern spread the shot one inch per meter from the muzzle.. 7" at 7 meters, etc.

Those are Caldwell 8" Orange Peel targets and the center bullseye (orange dot) is 1". The pattern at 7 yards is 1 to 1 1/4" inch. The pattern at 15 yards is 2" with two of the pellets going through the same hole. The targets at 7 and 15 yards was one single shot per target. I shot the 25 yard target with three shells for a total of 15 pellets. The pattern at 25 yards was around 12 inches. I fired all three shots at the 25 yard target in rapid succession. All shots were fired from my Mossberg 500 with the 18.5" cylinder bore barrel.

And you have to remember that with 410 buckshot loads, all pellets are stacked one on top of another in a single stack.

 

[dfariswheel]

Given the choice between the Kel-Tec KSG and the KS7 I put the KS7 way ahead.

The only real advantage of the KSG is the double magazine system. which is off set by the more complicated design, the weight and bulk, and the more difficulty in loading it. Since the KSG has two magazines you have to direct shells to the correct magazine.
The KS7 is a much simpler more mature design with less weight and bulk, and is much easier to load since the KS7 has guide rails so the only place the shell can go is into the magazine.

As for the Bullpup design, it has a lot to offer.
Overall it's actually slightly shorter then the Remington and Mossberg Shockwave type guns, and unlike them, it can be fired like a long gun with a butt stock for better control, and unlike those types, the Kel-Tec's have a full 18 1/2 inch barrel.
It can be handled easily with one hand unlike a standard long shotgun, and unlike the Shockwave type guns, the Kel-Tec's can be fired with one hand if needed for the first shot.
This makes it possible to maneuver around a house and open doors while having the gun in a ready to fire position.
This isn't possible with a standard long gun and the Shockwave types are too unbalanced to hold in a shooting position unless you have bodybuilder arms.

Bullpup guns have always had poor trigger because of the long linkage from the trigger back to the sear and hammer.
Kel-Tec solves this with a unique design that puts the sear and trigger up font, with only the hammer at the rear. So, the Kel-Tec's have the best trigger in any bullpup firearm.
Both my KSG and current KS7 have triggers as good as most any pump shotgun.
If you don't like the carry handle, Kel-Tec sells a conversion kit to install a KSG rail in place of the carry handle so you can mount any sight you want.

The KS7 seems to be the best in class for a bullpup pump shotgun, being less expensive and simpler then other designs.
Due to bad shoulders I couldn't handle a standard pump gun so first I tried the KSG, then after handling one I upgraded to a KS7.
Like a lot of new things it may not be for everyone and may take a little getting use to, but it certainly paid off for me.
As an added advantage, the Kel-Tec's "Usually" handle the 1 3/4 inch mini-shells.
This give a lot more rounds and very low recoil that almost anyone can handle.
I would caution to shoot enough of them to verify reliable operation.

Nothing says "Get outta my face" like a shotgun and the bullpup may well be the the future of home defense shotguns.

 

[Sniper66]

Given the choice between the Kel-Tec KSG and the KS7 I put the KS7 way ahead.

The only real advantage of the KSG is the double magazine system. which is off set by the more complicated design, the weight and bulk, and the more difficulty in loading it. Since the KSG has two magazines you have to direct shells to the correct magazine.
The KS7 is a much simpler more mature design with less weight and bulk, and is much easier to load since the KS7 has guide rails so the only place the shell can go is into the magazine.

As for the Bullpup design, it has a lot to offer.
Overall it's actually slightly shorter then the Remington and Mossberg Shockwave type guns, and unlike them, it can be fired like a long gun with a butt stock for better control, and unlike those types, the Kel-Tec's have a full 18 1/2 inch barrel.
It can be handled easily with one hand unlike a standard long shotgun, and unlike the Shockwave type guns, the Kel-Tec's can be fired with one hand if needed for the first shot.
This makes it possible to maneuver around a house and open doors while having the gun in a ready to fire position.
This isn't possible with a standard long gun and the Shockwave types are too unbalanced to hold in a shooting position unless you have bodybuilder arms.

Bullpup guns have always had poor trigger because of the long linkage from the trigger back to the sear and hammer.
Kel-Tec solves this with a unique design that puts the sear and trigger up font, with only the hammer at the rear. So, the Kel-Tec's have the best trigger in any bullpup firearm.
Both my KSG and current KS7 have triggers as good as most any pump shotgun.
If you don't like the carry handle, Kel-Tec sells a conversion kit to install a KSG rail in place of the carry handle so you can mount any sight you want.

The KS7 seems to be the best in class for a bullpup pump shotgun, being less expensive and simpler then other designs.
Due to bad shoulders I couldn't handle a standard pump gun so first I tried the KSG, then after handling one I upgraded to a KS7.
Like a lot of new things it may not be for everyone and may take a little getting use to, but it certainly paid off for me.
As an added advantage, the Kel-Tec's "Usually" handle the 1 3/4 inch mini-shells.
This give a lot more rounds and very low recoil that almost anyone can handle.
I would caution to shoot enough of them to verify reliable operation.

Nothing says "Get outta my face" like a shotgun and the bullpup may well be the the future of home defense shotguns.
View attachment 1138376

This is very helpful. I looked at the Kel-Tec website and they list the MSRP at $530. I found a dealer on GunBroker selling them for $429. Seems like an OK deal and I like them much better than the Mossberg Shockwave. Thanks for your help.

 

[TTv2]

I am guessing you have family members who would have trouble using a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun? In my humble opinion, the entire point of utilizing a shotgun in the home is the potency of the rounds fired. Not saying .410 isn’t potent, but a proper 12 or 20 gauge buckshot load blows it out of the water ballistically speaking. Even the reduced recoil buckshot loads are excellent.

What makes you think 5 pellets of 000 Buck from .410 won't be effective?

 

[TTv2]

I would avoid the KS7, it seems to be a problem child and IDK if Kel Tec is able to or interested in fixing it. The KSG is very bulky, but still light, so recoil reduced loads are likely best, but even those still pack a punch on the recoil.

If you want low recoil in a shotgun you are best sticking with either .410 or 20 gauge. I have more interest in .410, I find its use in survival applications and small game capabilities more appealing, yet I know it's still capable for home defense. 20ga is a bit more, definitely more hunting focused, so for those who bring their 20ga out every season, definitely not a bad idea to also apply it with a dedicated home defense shotgun.

Kel Tec doesn't make a 20ga shotgun, they will be making the .410, so I recommend that. A few boxes of the 000 Buck will go a long way, but I would get into reloading the .410 for regular shooting and that is the only shotgun cartridge I recommend reloading simply for saving money. The 12ga is so cheap there's not much reason to reload it. 20ga IDK how prices and availability are for it.

 

[Sniper66]

Well...we will see what works. My buddy ordered the KS7. I'll get to shoot it and have his feedback too. I'll let you know

 

[a_canadian]

A friend picked up a couple of of the KS7 last year, ended up selling one to a friend who wanted a trunk gun. He took his remaining unit on a hunt in Oregon last fall, and after taking a big mule deer with his Browning, got a half-dozen grouse with the KS7. All but 1 were head-shot-off at between about 15 and 20 yards, driven out of tall grass by a couple of hounds., the one body shot was on a wounded bird hit by a friend with a Benelli and a bit further out when my friend managed to nail it with #7.5 shot.

With a little red dot Holosun zeroed on paper for 20 yards the thing was like a laser, he said. He took it apart on receiving the gun, having read up on the various issues. Rebuilt it with a better spring in the trigger I think, did some polishing and lube work to smooth it out. Trigger's at about 3.5lbs since then and very short, crisp travel before a clean break, around 1/8" then *snap* - feels to him almost as good as his proper duck shotguns. Very compact and easy to carry slung on his back while hunting with a rifle.

On our coastal islands he carries it with 1oz slugs as his bear gun. Says recoil is punishing indeed, though he has a slip-over rubber pad mounted. He still likes using 1300fps or hotter loads with the gun though. Bigger dude, very fit, so he just accepts that some bruising is inevitable while enjoying his Kel-Tec. It'll never be his favourite firearm... but it's so gosh darn cool, like a chunk of Lego that goes bang and hits with enough precision and reliability that he wouldn't consider selling it.