Dionysusigma
Member
I was thinking of getting a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 for use as a small, general home defense/ trunk gun...any input/ opinions? Dealer's asking 270.00...also, 9x19 or .40 SW?
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Kel-Tec Sub 2000
- Thread starter Dionysusigma
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LIProgun
Member
These are nifty carbines when they work. The problems seem to be due to Kel-Tec's quality control. The one I have shot works very well and has no real problems. However, having read the KTOG Sub Gun forums for about 9 months now, my experience is far from universal.
I suggest you go here and read-up on feedback from various owners.
Bottom line: If you get a good one, you'll probably love it. If you get a bad one, you're at the mercy of Kel-Tec customer service. Some are pleased with the service, others had real problems.
I suggest you go here and read-up on feedback from various owners.
Bottom line: If you get a good one, you'll probably love it. If you get a bad one, you're at the mercy of Kel-Tec customer service. Some are pleased with the service, others had real problems.
Bobarino
member
i have one and i like it quite a bit. its one of those "you get what you pay for" kind of deals. its very fun to shoot and shoot. i bought the 9mm version because of the 16 inch barrel making the ballistics of the 9mm pretty impressive so i felt that the advantage of the .40S&W didn't outweight the cost of ammo. i had to polish my feedramp to get it to feed properly but now it runs like a champ. accuracy is much better than i expected. it shoots better than i do. it gets dirty fast due the blowback design but disassembly and cleaning is super easy. recoils is a little stiffer than i exptected. more so than that if the pistol caliber AR variants. not too unpleasant for most, but i have bony shoulders. still 200-300 rounds is no problem. i still think its a great value.
the bad things are, fit and finish is so-so, trigger is too heavy, no bolt hold-open on the last round. the sights are high above the bore axis so at varying ranges your shots will stray vertically a bit. the sights are useless in low light.
the good things are, its fun fun fun. accurate, reliable, solidly built save for the some of the plastics. the folding thing gives it a high "neat-o!" factor. you get to do a variant of the "HK Slap" with the bolt handle.
over all i recommend it but don't expect Weatherby quality. do expect to have a lot of fun with it.
Bobby
the bad things are, fit and finish is so-so, trigger is too heavy, no bolt hold-open on the last round. the sights are high above the bore axis so at varying ranges your shots will stray vertically a bit. the sights are useless in low light.
the good things are, its fun fun fun. accurate, reliable, solidly built save for the some of the plastics. the folding thing gives it a high "neat-o!" factor. you get to do a variant of the "HK Slap" with the bolt handle.
over all i recommend it but don't expect Weatherby quality. do expect to have a lot of fun with it.
Bobby
CTgunteacher
Member
I bought one of these for my sister as a birthday gift. She's not particularly interested in pistol shooting, and thus not especially good at it, but needed something for home defense. I got the Kel-Tec used for $209. It uses Beretta 92 mags. It does indeed have a high "neat-o" factor, and wowed the guys I work with (not too hard, though, since I work for a black powder gun company).
Sis and I took the Kel-Tec and 250 rounds of 9mm out to my gun club and set up some DEA-type silhouettes at 10 yards (about the longest distance she's have in or around her home). After a brief instructional period on the gun's operation, she was popping full mags into the target's center without any difficulty. Rapid-fire 5-shot groups hovered around 4" in her inexperienced hands.
Since we were alone on the range, we decided to do some more dynamic drills. I had her shooting on the move from 3 to 7 yards and engaging multiple targets after a few minutes, and the little carbine again did well for her.
The carbine was reliable, with no malfunctions in 250 rounds, except for one failure to fully chamber. This was a grungy lead-bullet reload that also wouldn't chamber in a CZ75ZB I had with me. Not the Kel-Tec's fault. PMC ball and Federal Hydra-Shok worked fine, as did the remainder (49) of the grungy reloads.
Couple of things I noticed:
Mag changes are more awkward than with a pistol. Mag release is in the Browning position, but the "Cooper flip" is more difficult to accomplish on a gun with a stock.
No bolt-hold open, as has already been mentioned. This obviously means you have to cycle the gun if you've shot it empty. The operating handle is awkwardly placed for this, and the recoil spring is fairly stout. Sis was able to run the gun fairly well, but will need much more practice to achieve any kind of fluidity.
The trigger pull is really spongy, but sis had no trouble doing quick Mozambiques at seven and ten yards. All head shots connected and were well-centered.
The cross-bolt safety took some practice, and will probably never be as fast as, say, an AR15 selector.
As was mentioned, the sights are high above the bore axis, much like an AR-type rifle. This can cause some POA/POI problems at close range for precise shooting. The idea of doing a hostage rescue shot with the Kel-Tec seems a bit farfetched...but anything is possible.
The carbine comes with a little key that allows you to lock it in the folded position to prevent unauthorized use. It's difficult enough to operate that sis and I decided she'd be better off with a cable lock.
Looking at the Kel-Tec manual, a ballistics chart in the back shows the 9mm giving velocity/energy figures basically equivalent to a .357 magnum revolver. I think this is sufficient for home defense, with the usual caveats about penetration. I'd pass on the .40 and get a 9mm, purely because 9mm practice ammo is cheaper than .40.
As an educational experience, after we'd fired all the 9mm ammo, I let sis take on another DEA target with my Commander .45. Results: groups three times the size of her hits with the Kel-Tec, and much, much slower. Conclusion: the carbine's a pretty fair substitute for a pistol for people who can't or won't learn to use a handgun well. Probably easier to use under stress than a handgun for just about anybody, too.
Mike
Sis and I took the Kel-Tec and 250 rounds of 9mm out to my gun club and set up some DEA-type silhouettes at 10 yards (about the longest distance she's have in or around her home). After a brief instructional period on the gun's operation, she was popping full mags into the target's center without any difficulty. Rapid-fire 5-shot groups hovered around 4" in her inexperienced hands.
Since we were alone on the range, we decided to do some more dynamic drills. I had her shooting on the move from 3 to 7 yards and engaging multiple targets after a few minutes, and the little carbine again did well for her.
The carbine was reliable, with no malfunctions in 250 rounds, except for one failure to fully chamber. This was a grungy lead-bullet reload that also wouldn't chamber in a CZ75ZB I had with me. Not the Kel-Tec's fault. PMC ball and Federal Hydra-Shok worked fine, as did the remainder (49) of the grungy reloads.
Couple of things I noticed:
Mag changes are more awkward than with a pistol. Mag release is in the Browning position, but the "Cooper flip" is more difficult to accomplish on a gun with a stock.
No bolt-hold open, as has already been mentioned. This obviously means you have to cycle the gun if you've shot it empty. The operating handle is awkwardly placed for this, and the recoil spring is fairly stout. Sis was able to run the gun fairly well, but will need much more practice to achieve any kind of fluidity.
The trigger pull is really spongy, but sis had no trouble doing quick Mozambiques at seven and ten yards. All head shots connected and were well-centered.
The cross-bolt safety took some practice, and will probably never be as fast as, say, an AR15 selector.
As was mentioned, the sights are high above the bore axis, much like an AR-type rifle. This can cause some POA/POI problems at close range for precise shooting. The idea of doing a hostage rescue shot with the Kel-Tec seems a bit farfetched...but anything is possible.
The carbine comes with a little key that allows you to lock it in the folded position to prevent unauthorized use. It's difficult enough to operate that sis and I decided she'd be better off with a cable lock.
Looking at the Kel-Tec manual, a ballistics chart in the back shows the 9mm giving velocity/energy figures basically equivalent to a .357 magnum revolver. I think this is sufficient for home defense, with the usual caveats about penetration. I'd pass on the .40 and get a 9mm, purely because 9mm practice ammo is cheaper than .40.
As an educational experience, after we'd fired all the 9mm ammo, I let sis take on another DEA target with my Commander .45. Results: groups three times the size of her hits with the Kel-Tec, and much, much slower. Conclusion: the carbine's a pretty fair substitute for a pistol for people who can't or won't learn to use a handgun well. Probably easier to use under stress than a handgun for just about anybody, too.
Mike
TheOtherOne
Member
Cool. I'm thinking about getting one of these also. I didn't even see this post when I posted up my new topic. I guess I should look a little harder before posting something up.
Anyways, good info! Thanks!
Anyways, good info! Thanks!
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