Kel-Tech Shotgun
- Thread starter stevek
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Inebriated
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Nope, but I haven't exactly been looking. I would like to mess with one at some point. I want to know if it feels cheap or "plasticky."
Inebriated
Member
What do you mean no forend or stock? It's got a stock, it's got a forend, and it's got an 18" barrel. It's accuracy is probably no different from any other 18" barrel with the same choke.
HoboCoastie
Member
He probably means a fore-grip. The picatinny is already there and fore-grips are cheap.
As far as impractical, I don't know what's impractical about a high capacity, short OAL shotgun. That's pretty much everything you would want in a tactical/home-defense package...IMHO.
I can't wait for this thing to come out.
As far as impractical, I don't know what's impractical about a high capacity, short OAL shotgun. That's pretty much everything you would want in a tactical/home-defense package...IMHO.
I can't wait for this thing to come out.
Actually, it's a hair lighter than a Mossberg 500. I'm not sure you have any useful information about this shotgun.
I kind of doubt the ergonomics will be as good as a standard pump gun, but I'm willing to play with it a bit whenever they start shipping in earnest.
CoRoMo
Member
By shoulder stock I meant side saddle!
They both weigh 7 lbs. Neither weighs 21 lbs.
They both weigh 7 lbs. Neither weighs 21 lbs.
A Mossberg 500 with a 18.5" barrel weighs 6 3/4 lbs empty.
The KSG is purported to weigh 6.69 lbs empty empty.
Now there is the issue of loaded weight. The Mossberg will hold 6 +1 shells. The KSG will hold 14 +1. The extra shells will make it heavier (although not anywhere near 2x as much let alone 3). However, most people who are setting a shotgun up for social use add a side saddle (or other means of carrying shells). That means the gun is going to have another 4-10 shells on it (side saddles are often 4-8 and some people also use a speed feed stock or like too). Say six extra shells on a side saddle and now the mossberg is carrying 13 or two less than the KSG.
In sum, there is not that much weight difference and the lighter gun likely will depend on how each is set up.
As to balance and handling I have never handled a KSG so I cannot speak to that.
I've been following this shotgun with some interest. It is (supposedly) just now shipping, but only a couple hundred have shipped. It will take years before the supply will meet demand.
You can check out the KTOG (Kel-Tec Owners Group) for more info: http://www.thektog.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=92
Now, as for weight and balance, most reviews that I have read have been very complimentary concerning weight, ergonomics, and balance. Of course, as we start to see these shotguns in the hands of regular shooters, we'll get a better picture.
But I do keep seeing reviewers claim that the balance is far superior to a "normal" shotgun. Consider that with regular pump shotguns, most of the gun (including the ammunition) is situated in front of the grip. With the KSG, it is above the grip (forward and behind). Plus, as you run through shells, the ammo weight shifts to behind the grip.
We'll have to wait to get a better idea of how this performs. But for now, here are two reviews for you to read:
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Weapons/Articles/2011/11/Kel-Tec-KSG-Shotgun.aspx
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/robert-farago/gun-review-kel-tec-ksg/
You can check out the KTOG (Kel-Tec Owners Group) for more info: http://www.thektog.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=92
Now, as for weight and balance, most reviews that I have read have been very complimentary concerning weight, ergonomics, and balance. Of course, as we start to see these shotguns in the hands of regular shooters, we'll get a better picture.
But I do keep seeing reviewers claim that the balance is far superior to a "normal" shotgun. Consider that with regular pump shotguns, most of the gun (including the ammunition) is situated in front of the grip. With the KSG, it is above the grip (forward and behind). Plus, as you run through shells, the ammo weight shifts to behind the grip.
We'll have to wait to get a better idea of how this performs. But for now, here are two reviews for you to read:
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Weapons/Articles/2011/11/Kel-Tec-KSG-Shotgun.aspx
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/robert-farago/gun-review-kel-tec-ksg/
HoboCoastie
Member
I really like this gun, mostly because it's Made in USA and due to the large capacity and short OAL, but I've been contemplating the KSG vs. the Mossberg 930SPX vs. the Saiga 12.
From a legal standpoint, the water gets muddy when you start modding a Saiga, so I've kind of placed that one on the back burner of my selection process.
Mossberg 930SPX's are really hard to find...but not as hard as KSG's I guess. Lol.
From a legal standpoint, the water gets muddy when you start modding a Saiga, so I've kind of placed that one on the back burner of my selection process.
Mossberg 930SPX's are really hard to find...but not as hard as KSG's I guess. Lol.
HoboCoastie
Member
Somebody oughta buy it from the guy, load it, then demand 2/3 of their money back!
Elm Creek Smith
Member
If I didn't already have a Remington 870 Express this would be a great choice for a home defense shotgun! We have had good luck with KelTec products in my family, so I'm not worried about the reliability issues. Who knows, maybe my kids will buy me one for my birthday!
I'd like to have a Saiga 12 modded with the AK stock/grip, but I don't see that as a home defense weapon unless we're talking about perimeter security. "(Bleeps) in the wire!" or "They're coming over the wall!"
ECS
I'd like to have a Saiga 12 modded with the AK stock/grip, but I don't see that as a home defense weapon unless we're talking about perimeter security. "(Bleeps) in the wire!" or "They're coming over the wall!"
ECS
HoboCoastie
Member
I don't know much about it as I haven't looked into that aspect of the Saigas yet, but I think I heard something to the tune of any parts you swap in have to be made in usa? Something like that? Somebody who knows more could probably enlighten you better.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
People worry that if they don't convert their Saiga shotguns to 922r compliance, some BATF boogey man will come after them in the night.
Nevermind that I have never been able to find ANY evidence that this has ever happened, nor has there ever been a good explanation of how the ATF would even be able to tell beyond a reasonable doubt where a part came from if it isn't stamped "Made in USA" or whatever.
Nevermind that I have never been able to find ANY evidence that this has ever happened, nor has there ever been a good explanation of how the ATF would even be able to tell beyond a reasonable doubt where a part came from if it isn't stamped "Made in USA" or whatever.
Inebriated
Member
For HD, you want a compliant gun, though. 922(r) is simple. You can only have 10 imported parts, leaving you with 6 to be replaced. A US-made trigger group counts as three, so just get US-made stock, pistol grip, and forend. It costs about the same as a non-US made part, but you get the piece of mind that you're in compliance, and (most importantly, IMO) you are getting US-MADE PARTS!
Read my post above. If you have a side saddle or the like then the number of shells on the gun is very similar and thus the weight is as well.
I'm familar with 922r. It is fairly straightforward and easy to comply with. As long as you can count to ten there is not much difficulty in complying.
In short a saiga shotgun has 15 countable parts (it used to be thought to have 14 but the BATF is saying 15 these days). 922r makes it a crime to assemble from foriegn parts certain types of weapons. The rules the BATF have promulgated say that if it has more than ten foreign parts from a list of countable parts it is a violation.
What that means on a practical level is that you have to remove (and practically speaking replace with US parts) five countable parts. This is easily done as part of the typical pistol grip conversion process. The fire control group that gets replaced counts as 3 parts. The stock is another countable part. A very easy and inexpensive compliance part is the gas puck. Other countable parts include the magazine (3 parts body, base plate, and follower), hand guard, and pistol grip (so make sure to use a US one as not to increase the count since the factory gun didn't come with one).
Like I say if you can count to ten it is a pretty simple (albeit silly) law. I wouldn't avoid a saiga on account of 922r concerns.
I've seen people cause a whole lot of grief, time, and money by criminal prosecutions in which they were ultimately acquitted.
There have been 922r convictions. See 169 F.Supp.2d 957 (N.D.Ind.,2001).
It is so simple to be compliant there is just no reason not to be.
DM~
Member
AND you'd think even MORE common sense would prevail, in that you don't have to load it all the way full... (if the loaded weight bothers you)
I saw one in action on the sportsman channel today, and although i'm not into tati-cool guns, i have to admit it did look good and functioned well for the shooter, patterning very good at 20 yards.
DM
At the end of the day it's still a Kel-Tec.
I'd put my RJF S-12 SBS with a MD 20rd. drum up against it anyday.
Next shotgun I get will be the SRM 1212 (13" SBS) or 1216.
I had a gunshop owner call me up from Coco near Kel-Tec and said they had them on Gunbroker. They are a $800 shotgun selling for $1700 and up.
I fell like calling him back and tell him that he can keep his plastic shotgun.
Selling them for that price should be against the law.
I'd put my RJF S-12 SBS with a MD 20rd. drum up against it anyday.
Next shotgun I get will be the SRM 1212 (13" SBS) or 1216.
I had a gunshop owner call me up from Coco near Kel-Tec and said they had them on Gunbroker. They are a $800 shotgun selling for $1700 and up.
I fell like calling him back and tell him that he can keep his plastic shotgun.
Selling them for that price should be against the law.
It looks like an ok self defense gun, but I don't think that I could get used to loading it because of the Bull Pup design. And ZRT2, I agree with you that Kel-Tec makes bad guns, my dad owns two of them, and they are the worst designs i have ever seen.
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