MedWheeler
Member
Hexhead, YZ, and all, let's not get this thread closed by dwelling on (or even mentioning) one particular case of the PF9 being used in self-defense. Besides, one shot from one gun in one case hardly makes a "proven track record."
Keltec 9mm
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@ Walt Sherrill
A stovepipe to me means the cartridge or case, empty or loaded, ends up being jammed upward in the action when it tried to go back into battery. There may be another technical term for this with a loaded cartridge of which I am not aware.
A nosedive to me means the cartridge got jammed in the magazine well pointing downward --usually jammed up against the edge of the feed ramp.
Most of the time one can blame either of these on magazine defects, but one of the mags was new provided by Kel-Tec when they sent it back after "doing things" to it, which is why I mentioned both magazines.
I mentioned the short versus long feed ramp because it might be related to the wide difference in experiences with the gun. Obviously, they changed the design of it because "something" was going wrong.
I have kvetched about this gun several times on the boards and I will not quit bellyaching about it until they decide to mail me a new barrel with the long feed ramp and I can try that out.
I will not sell it because it is a primarily self-defense gun and I wouldn't want some poor schnook to find out how unreliable it is in an actual defense situation. I have frequently described it as a two-shot derringer with a handy detachable compartment for extra cartridges.
Terry, 230RN
A stovepipe to me means the cartridge or case, empty or loaded, ends up being jammed upward in the action when it tried to go back into battery. There may be another technical term for this with a loaded cartridge of which I am not aware.
A nosedive to me means the cartridge got jammed in the magazine well pointing downward --usually jammed up against the edge of the feed ramp.
Most of the time one can blame either of these on magazine defects, but one of the mags was new provided by Kel-Tec when they sent it back after "doing things" to it, which is why I mentioned both magazines.
I mentioned the short versus long feed ramp because it might be related to the wide difference in experiences with the gun. Obviously, they changed the design of it because "something" was going wrong.
I have kvetched about this gun several times on the boards and I will not quit bellyaching about it until they decide to mail me a new barrel with the long feed ramp and I can try that out.
I will not sell it because it is a primarily self-defense gun and I wouldn't want some poor schnook to find out how unreliable it is in an actual defense situation. I have frequently described it as a two-shot derringer with a handy detachable compartment for extra cartridges.
Terry, 230RN
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Walt Sherrill
Member
I see -- you were just commenting on the feed ramp issue as it MIGHT pertain to other problems people have experienced with the guns.
The term doesn't apply to loaded cartridges sticking up... as the term STOVEPIPE comes from seeing an empty case sticking up like a stovepipe. It's generally caused by the extractor losing its grip on the case and it interfering with the next round being chambered. There's always a new round and an old round competing for space. Extractor issues were common with the early PF-9, particularly if the screw holding the extractor in place was loose or damaged.
If you have a unfired round sticking up that round hasn't made it to the chamber, THAT is generally a mag-related issue, often feed lips a bit too wide. You don't have two cases competing for the same space. (As you hinted, it might also be a feed-ramp related problem, but that would be less common.)
Yes. And it's often due to a weak mag spring, or the mag spring having been installed wrong, so that the tip of the spring isn't supporting the FRONT of the follower. The follower generally isn't lifting it high enough, and when the slide catches the round and pushes it forward, it can't go where it needs to go.
If you're unwilling to invest more time in the gun, I would definitely sell it -- with proper warnings/caveats -- on a forum where people are familiar with the gun. Even selling it at a discount beats using it as a paper weight. A couple of good forum where you could do this with a clear conscience are shown below.
Or, you might spend some time on a couple of these Kel-Tec-focused Forums, where MANY folks know the guns and their problems well -- and can supply the proper fixes. You may find some interesting enhancements, too. Try these:
http://www.thektog.org/forum/
http://www.keltecforum.com/
http://ktog.org/tecwerks.htm (This one may have become inactive, but it's still up and the tips are still good...)
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The term doesn't apply to loaded cartridges sticking up... as the term STOVEPIPE comes from seeing an empty case sticking up like a stovepipe. It's generally caused by the extractor losing its grip on the case and it interfering with the next round being chambered. There's always a new round and an old round competing for space. Extractor issues were common with the early PF-9, particularly if the screw holding the extractor in place was loose or damaged.
If you have a unfired round sticking up that round hasn't made it to the chamber, THAT is generally a mag-related issue, often feed lips a bit too wide. You don't have two cases competing for the same space. (As you hinted, it might also be a feed-ramp related problem, but that would be less common.)
Yes. And it's often due to a weak mag spring, or the mag spring having been installed wrong, so that the tip of the spring isn't supporting the FRONT of the follower. The follower generally isn't lifting it high enough, and when the slide catches the round and pushes it forward, it can't go where it needs to go.
If you're unwilling to invest more time in the gun, I would definitely sell it -- with proper warnings/caveats -- on a forum where people are familiar with the gun. Even selling it at a discount beats using it as a paper weight. A couple of good forum where you could do this with a clear conscience are shown below.
Or, you might spend some time on a couple of these Kel-Tec-focused Forums, where MANY folks know the guns and their problems well -- and can supply the proper fixes. You may find some interesting enhancements, too. Try these:
http://www.thektog.org/forum/
http://www.keltecforum.com/
http://ktog.org/tecwerks.htm (This one may have become inactive, but it's still up and the tips are still good...)
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I had a PF-9 and it was the most uncomfortable pistol I have ever shot. I haven't shot a great variety of pistols/revolvers, but I have shot some that are considered a handful and the PF-9 was by far the worst. My fingertip on my trigger finger would go numb after shooting a couple of mags.
The gun was accurate enough for what it was designed, and easily concealed. Considering that a little numbness in my fingertip would not be a factor in a self-defense situation - the gun was well suited for that, and it never jammed or failed on me at the range.
Still, I sold it as I feel i have better carry options that aren't painful to shoot.
The gun was accurate enough for what it was designed, and easily concealed. Considering that a little numbness in my fingertip would not be a factor in a self-defense situation - the gun was well suited for that, and it never jammed or failed on me at the range.
Still, I sold it as I feel i have better carry options that aren't painful to shoot.
I own a P11 and have had a few different problems with it. I damaged the magazine catch by being too rough with putting magazines in early on (the factory P11 magazine catches are plastic). I bought a metal mag catch from a guy at www.ktog.org & solved that issue. Then I saw someone at KTOG that suggested heating the plastic trigger & bending it to make the trigger reach more comfortable. I did this but I think I brought it back too far because after that the trigger spring kept jumping out of the trigger bar. I replaced the spring & trigger bar & bent the trigger back closer to it's original configuration. I haven't had any more problem with that since & hope I don't. The next issue was the slide stop, it has broken & been replaced twice (this did not interfere with function other than the slide not locking back). The folks at Kel-Tec customer service are very good & responsive. They will send out any part you request quickly. I use this gun when I need something small & light & it conceals easily. I don't claim to like the trigger. I believe it will work for it's desired function but I doubt I will ever buy another Kel Tec product.
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