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Kerry shotgun remains in state — and in news

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Harry Tuttle, Sep 23, 2004.

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  1. Harry Tuttle

    Harry Tuttle Member

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    http://www.dailymail.com/news/News/2004092329/

    Kerry shotgun remains in state — and in news
    NRA official contends
    presidential candidate
    trying to confuse sportsmen

    Brad McElhinny
    Daily Mail staff

    Thursday September 23, 2004



    Presidential candidate John Kerry never took home a semi-automatic shotgun that stirred controversy when he accepted it at a Boone County rally, causing critics to claim the Democrat even flip-flops on photo ops.

    Kerry's opponents and political Internet sites made hay from pictures of him accepting the gun at a Labor Day rally, saying the Remington 11-87 was one he had voted to ban in the Senate.

    But Kerry hasn't been able to keep the gun because he couldn't transport it over state lines to his home in Massachusetts until he has filled out the proper paperwork.

    "It's par for the course, John Kerry flip-flopping on the issues," said Ashley Varner, a spokeswoman for the National Rifle Association.

    "We knew this was a photo op to confuse hunters and law-abiding gun owners because he has been so anti-gun in his 20 years in the Senate. Now his campaign strategy is to don blaze orange as camouflage of his true voting record against gun owners."

    The United Mine Workers, which presented Kerry with the shotgun that was made by union members who work for Remington, said the candidate knew beforehand he would not be able to take it home immediately.

    For Kerry to keep the shotgun, he would have to fill out the proper paperwork through a federally licensed dealer. He also would have to pass a background check.

    "We still have it in our possession," United Mine Workers spokesman Doug Gibson said. "We're waiting for him to fill out the proper paperwork. Senator Kerry has given us every indication he wants to keep the gun. He just has to finish out the campaign."

    Gibson said the issue has been exaggerated.

    "We think it's been way overblown," he said. "Our members of Remington Arms are proud of the product they make, and we were proud to give to Senator Kerry."

    Kerry currently is taking the necessary measures to legally transfer the gun into his possession in Massachusetts, said Kathy Roeder, a campaign spokeswoman. He looks forward to legally owning and using the Remington, she said.

    "He wants to keep it," Roeder said.

    Earlier this month, the online Drudge Report and the National Rifle Association said the shotgun would have been banned under a bill that Kerry co-sponsored.

    The bill sought to renew the ban on the manufacture of assault-style weapons and legally broaden the characteristics that would define such weapons.

    Kerry's campaign has said the gun is a "sportsman's shotgun" and "he would never ban it."

    The issue was the focus of a recent article in "Gun Week," a publication of the Second Amendment Foundation. Senior Editor Dave Workman wrote that Kerry did not have possession of the gun he accepted in West Virginia.

    "It's probably in somebody's closet gathering dust," Workman said in an interview this week. "You wonder if he really will. If he actually does go ahead and get the shotgun, that's news."

    Workman said most of his readers believe the gun gift was staged for the image that Kerry is for gun rights.

    "My impression was it was a photo op and that's it," Workman said. "That impression is shared by a lot of people in gun community."

    Gun Week has paid earlier attention to some of Kerry's campaign events involving guns -- a pheasant hunt in Iowa and a skeet shoot in Wisconsin.

    "It's obvious that he is really trying to present himself as a pro-gun, pro-sport shooting candidate," Workman said. "Unfortunately, his voting record in Washington, D.C., says otherwise."
     
  2. redhead

    redhead Member

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    Um, isn't there still the issue of a senator receiving a gift that is worth more than $50?

    I really really really liked the comment about it being a "sportsman's" shotgun, so that Kerry would never vote to ban it. We all know that the 2nd amendment is about duck hunting, after all.
     
  3. tyme

    tyme Member

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    It hasn't been given to Senator Kerry yet, you idiot. Until he fills out the paperwork and it gets transferred properly from an FFL, NO DICE.

    Of course. Even if the gun had been transferred, it would still be a photo op. Based on his voting record, he has no credibility.

    I wonder if Kerry carries a handgun.
     
  4. sharpie613

    sharpie613 Member

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    I've often wondered if the union guy who gave Kerry that shotgun was secretly on our side and hoping this would force the issue one way or the other, as it's been pretty much a boondoggle for him since the beginning.
     
  5. RavenVT100

    RavenVT100 Member

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    Kerry's campaign is not telling the truth. That shotgun would have been banned by the bill which Kerry co-sponsored. AFAIK that's not a fact that's up for debate.

    Of course, we all know about how the law doesn't seem to apply to Kerry's personal firearms in the same manner that it does with ours.
     
  6. sendec

    sendec member

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    We also know how to make a mountain out of a molehill. If this is our idea of a real issue, we are screwed.

    Y'all are just jealous cause nobody's giving you guns as presents

    :rolleyes:

    When do we start Shotgun Owners for the Truth?
     
  7. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    It does show that Kerry will ensure guns that he likes and/or approves of will remain legal, whether or not they meet the criteria of a banned weapon. Only the guns he has no interest in owning will be banned.

    Actually, it is more that those of us that have spent years jumping through hoops to get the firearms we want are greatly aggravated when a public figure is able to bypass those hoops. If we are going to have rules, then everyone gets to play by them.
     
  8. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Remington let one of their shotguns go to an anitgunner like Kerry...they are worse than Colt...boycott em! Hope they go under! Who needs traitorous gun comapnies!

    Pass me that Raven!

    WildthatwillteachemAlaska
     
  9. 444

    444 Member

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    You are not getting my Raven.
     
  10. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Member

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    You're missing the (obvious) point. Kerry actually favored proposed legislation that would have banned the very gun while his campaign spinners say
    . They're lying again. He DID try to ban it. Either they're continuing their desperate attempts to gain traction by spinning an incident instead of their wheels, or they're so truth-impaired and stupid they don't actually realize that he tried to ban it and weapons like it.

    Dave Workman has it exactly right:
    TC
    TFL Survivor
     
  11. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Just two minutes from sanity.
    Yeah! Boycot Remington! Remington must die! And boycot Heinz too! Heinz must die! No true patriot would own an 11-87 or eat ketchup!
    Jumping jeebus, it stinks of desperation in here. Find a real issue or move on.
     
  12. halvey

    halvey Member

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    Just proves how out of touch their union is.

    But I do like the theory of "forcing the issue".
     
  13. Foreign Devil

    Foreign Devil Member

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    Much as I don't like Kerry, did he actually vote to ban this thing?

    It doesn't have a pistol grip or other evil feature, though it is a semi-auto.
     
  14. hecks68

    hecks68 Member

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    The way I understand it... Remington had nothing to do with this. If you purchase a shotgun and give it to someone who is the giver... You or the company who made the shotgun? Besides, what would boycotting a company who contributes to our rights and interests do other than dry up yet another gun manufacturer. We can't afford to have less support on todays age.
     
  15. RKCheung

    RKCheung Member

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    Under S.1431 that was co-sponsored by Kerry, the Remington 11-87 Kerry held that day would have been banned under these two provisisions:
    ______________________________________________________

    `(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

    `(ii) a pistol grip;

    `(42) PISTOL GRIP- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.
    ______________________________________________________

    `(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.
     
  16. RavenVT100

    RavenVT100 Member

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    Almost all firearms were originally designed for military or law enforcement use. Even if a firearm is marketed as being for hunting, the core design most likely derives from something that was used in a military context at one time.
     
  17. Black Snowman

    Black Snowman Member

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    S.1431 is (was hopefully?) a scary bill. Basicly, the Attorney General determines what we can and cannot have and could simplely rule that no guns are legal because he doesn't consider any firearm to have a sporting purpose and that ANYTHING the goverment buys, has bought, or thinks about buying is automaticly verboten.

    Bye bye shotguns, bolt rifles, semi-auto pistols, semi-auto rifles, lever guns, revlovers, (can't forget the Forestry Servcie), 22s . . . is there ANY weapon the US Government hasn't employed at some point?
     
  18. LiquidTension

    LiquidTension Member

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    I dunno...kinda turns me off to Remington if they like Kerry enough to give him free guns. He actively tries to pass legislation and that would hurt their business and our rights and they praise him for it??? A bit screwy :scrutiny:
     
  19. EOD Guy

    EOD Guy Member

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    As stated above, Remington DID NOT give Kerry the shotgun. It was given by the union representing some Remington workers. The company has stated that it had nothing to do with the gift itself.
     
  20. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    If all it takes is a couple of employees giving a gun to an anti-politician to turn people against the manufacturer, I'm sure the antis will be getting a bunch of gifts in the near future.:rolleyes:
     
  21. GSB

    GSB Member

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    Thanks. I've tried unsuccessfully on another forum to get people to understand that under some interpretations of the law, that shotgun could have been considered to have a pistol grip, and that in fact I've seen gun writers refer to that style of stock as having a pistol grip. They can't seem to get AR15-style grips out of their heads and understand that just about any grip feature protruding "consipicuously" beneath the line of the stock can, conceivably, be ruled a "pistol grip" by the Powers that Be (and if anyone thinks the VPC and Brady would not be pushing that particular interpretation under a Kerry administration, I have some prime land in the Everglades for sale).
     
  22. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    So every gun has a pistol grip, huh?

    You can have my Raven if you pry it from my cold, dead fingers, WildAlaska. Get yourself a Hi-Point.
     
  23. DigMe

    DigMe Member

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    I just sent an email to Remington. I know that this man was speaking for the union and not them but in this article he specifically said:

    "We think it's been way overblown," he said. "Our members of Remington Arms are proud of the product they make, and we were proud to give to Senator Kerry."

    He doesn't say "our members of the union" but "of Remington Arms." That pisses me off that he's pretending to speak for the company so I sent them the following email in the hope that they will take this guy to task for appearing to speak for the company:


    Again, I'm not jumping to boycott Remington and I know they issued a statement disassociating themselves from the event but I just want them to hold that guy responsible in some way.

    EDIT: Actually I didn't send an email so-to-speak. I filled out the customer help section on their website.

    brad cook
     
  24. EOD Guy

    EOD Guy Member

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    Brad,

    Read the article again! It was NOT Remington that gave Kerry the Shotgun, it was the United Mine Workers Union. The person that presented the shotgun was a union representative, not a Remington representatrive.

    Even if he is a Remington employee, the company cannot do anything about his union activities during his own time.
     
  25. goon

    goon Member

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    For those of you who call this a non-issue, you are wrong.
    It clearly says to the "borderline" gunowners "Look, he is after your guns too!"

    It really doesn't matter to me because hunting is about the least of my reasons for owning a gun.
    The first ammendment doesn't apply only to journalists, so why should the second apply only to hunters?

    In other words, keep your blankety-blanking hands off my AK, off my FAL, and off my Bill of rights.

    But it is an issue.
    Also, Kerry supposedly owns a war trophy from Vietnam. I wouldn't be suprised if it was a gift from Ho Chi Minh though. But at any rate, he owns one of the guns that he doesn't want me to be able to own.
    IMO, that is also an issue worthy of drawing attention to.
     
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