Kibler fowler

I highly doubt it since choking wasn't around until the 19th century.
Not only that, but the slight improvement of jug-choking isn't worth the hassle of loading a jug-choked gun, and I assume you can't get a tightly patched ball down the bore. (or past the choke) Good patterns can be had through load development and experimenting with a cylinder bore. My Bess patterns great, and she hasn't failed to kill old Tom Turkey, his buddy Jake, or a grouse yet.
 
I'd expect the barrel contours to be the same so the 16 maybe a good bit ligher which I like, tho the 20 should take a heavier load with more meat at the muzzle. I didn't see anyone ask if these will be choked or not, I'd guess not. The only thing I worry is ball molds for the 16, I'm sure there are more options for the 20ga barrel.
If it's lighter, that's always a plus. That is why I went .62" instead of .58" with my Jeager. Lighter gun. Anyhow, I think you can get ball molds in any size, and smooth bores are not fussy. With a smoothie you can go quite a bit undersize, and use thick patching. My Bess has a .75" bore, I shoot a .690" ball. I either patch it with denim, or chew it and patch it with a .023" patch.
 
If it's lighter, that's always a plus. That is why I went .62" instead of .58" with my Jeager. Lighter gun. Anyhow, I think you can get ball molds in any size, and smooth bores are not fussy. With a smoothie you can go quite a bit undersize, and use thick patching. My Bess has a .75" bore, I shoot a .690" ball. I either patch it with denim, or chew it and patch it with a .023" patch.
I miss the 15ga Hopkins and Allen smoothbore I had, think I was shooting .667 round balls and would make a ragged hole at 25 yards with the bead sight, don't think that gun was even 5 pounds and great to carry.
 
If it's lighter, that's always a plus. That is why I went .62" instead of .58" with my Jeager. Lighter gun. Anyhow, I think you can get ball molds in any size, and smooth bores are not fussy. With a smoothie you can go quite a bit undersize, and use thick patching. My Bess has a .75" bore, I shoot a .690" ball. I either patch it with denim, or chew it and patch it with a .023" patch.

The last I looked - which was over ten years ago - one of the only places to get a 16 gauge ball mould was in the UK.
 
That looks nice I just hope it doesn't drive the price up a lot, I'm hoping 800-900 without the lock less would be nice. I like most of the carving would be done, I know how to carve wood but would hate it if I seed it up with my ocd I've got lol.
 
I just did a quick search and got several hits for .662 balls and molds.
But are there molds a few thousand bigger or smaller, sometimes you may need a little bit different size if you can't make that ball work. I believe the guy in the uk died but think his family is making those molds he made.
 
In a smooth bore, you can make just about any ball work, and none will work much over 60 yards. :) Didn't/Doesn't LEE make them in small size steps up to .69"?? Anyhow, not like fitting a ball to a rifle.
 
In a smooth bore, you can make just about any ball work, and none will work much over 60 yards. :) Didn't/Doesn't LEE make them in small size steps up to .69"?? Anyhow, not like fitting a ball to a rifle.
A big part of my lack of excitement re. the fowler is that I've simply never been able to make them work very well with a round ball. Despite several years of study and effort - and quite a bit of encouragement from people who claim true three or four MOA from the things - I've never gotten consistently good results. Between that and the fact that I'm a truly awful wingshooter, I'm happy to leave the smoothbores to folks who like them.

All that aside, though, I'm just happy to have another opportunity to recommend Larry Callahan, who really is a tremendous resource for our little community. I guess I never go afield without at least one or two of his bits in my possibles bag.
 
That looks nice I just hope it doesn't drive the price up a lot, I'm hoping 800-900 without the lock less would be nice.

I'm liking the relief carving better than the incise carving of the others but I think it would be a bear to sand around. I'm thinking the price is going to depend on how much time it spends on the CNC machine. If it doesn't take any longer than it does to do incise carving the price should be about the same as an incised carved stock which would be about 1,300 without the lock.
 
Despite several years of study and effort - and quite a bit of encouragement from people who claim true three or four MOA from the things - I've never gotten consistently good results.
Well, those claims might be just that. I have heard them claims. I do know from my own efforts that more velocity will keep the ball on course longer, but there's a limit. My Brown Bess is certainly more accurate with a 140 grain charge, compared to 100 grains or less. Realistically, I don't think one is going to keep a smoothbore on a paper plate much past 70 yards. For humane kills on large game, I don't think shots over 60 yards are very ethical.

Playing around with my paint ball gun one day, on the balcony of a house that was on a steep hillside, I could watch the flight of the balls real well for a long distance. What they do, is fly real straight for a certain distance. Then you see them veer off, randomly, suddenly right or left, high or low. Not a constant trajectory, real straight, then, hang a left! Or right. I believe a lead ball behaves the same way. With a musket, one can get really good, excellent accuracy out to 50 yards, or a little more, but go to 100 yards and they spread out, far more than with a rifle, with "cone shaped" dispersion. So, I'm not sure what kind of magic or voodoo can keep a non-spinning ball in a three or four minute of angle. ? Mike Belivue (SP?) has quite a few videos of shooting different muskets and smoothbores out to 100 yards with different loading techniques, powder charges, etc. I think they are quite representative of actual, realistic smoothbore accuracy. You can certainly hit a man at 100 yards, 95% of the time, where any hit is a good hit, but one is not going to place the ball reliably into the vital area of a deer, or keep your shots on a paper plate. Very likely to blow off a leg, hit it in the butt, etc.
 
Ya sometime you can power through with a warm load and get some good accuracy, I've seem some snoothbores make some impressive groups at 100 yards. Even with a undersized ball, my h&a liked the first load I messed with. Leather patch from some of my old baseball gloves, 3 cards made from cereal box, ball, veg oil soaked fiber wad on top. I've even powder coated some a few times to get a better fit with a patch. One of the funnest things with soothnores is trying different loads, I just wish I had a place I could shoot more often and somewhere to find black powder.
 
The Lyman and Pedersoli weigh about the same according to the stats, around 9 pounds. Jim's guns are petty true to originals so I'd expect a half stock Hawken from him to weigh 11+ pounds. Mine weighs a little over 11 IIRC and it doesn't have the tapered barrel with a thick breech plus my barrel is a little short at 31 inches. FWIW I would expect a Hawken from Jim to be a full stock flinter so probably closer to 12 pounds.
My Pedersoli is a pound heavier than the Lyman, both .54's. I'd have to measure again but the barrel on the Pedersoli is either 1/16" or 1/8" larger.
 
Ya sometime you can power through with a warm load and get some good accuracy, I've seem some snoothbores make some impressive groups at 100 yards. Even with a undersized ball, my h&a liked the first load I messed with. Leather patch from some of my old baseball gloves, 3 cards made from cereal box, ball, veg oil soaked fiber wad on top. I've even powder coated some a few times to get a better fit with a patch. One of the funnest things with soothnores is trying different loads, I just wish I had a place I could shoot more often and somewhere to find black powder.
Yep, Bingo!! One has to play around with them to get them to shoot accurately. And, forget everything one knows about patched ball in a rifled barrel. ! They are a very different animal.
 
My Pedersoli is a pound heavier than the Lyman, both .54's. I'd have to measure again but the barrel on the Pedersoli is either 1/16" or 1/8" larger.

The Lyman is supposed to have a 15/16 barrel and the Pedersoli an inch. I don't nor have I ever had either so I'm just going by what the net says. An original Hawken had a barrel that was about 1 1/8 at the breech tapering down to an inch at the muzzle tho there were some that were straight with no taper in either size.
 
The Lyman is supposed to have a 15/16 barrel and the Pedersoli an inch. I don't nor have I ever had either so I'm just going by what the net says. An original Hawken had a barrel that was about 1 1/8 at the breech tapering down to an inch at the muzzle tho there were some that were straight with no taper in either size.
That sounds right, I'll double check later. If they're that heavy and I can't get something lighter with a bigger bore, I'll have to pass. I'm at the point where I REALLY like my flintlock long rifles, so a half stock would have to be perfect for me to want to go back. I'm all in on the fowler though.

I've been hunting with the Kibler Colonial .54 but still need to finish my .40cal SMR.
 
That sounds right, I'll double check later. If they're that heavy and I can't get something lighter with a bigger bore, I'll have to pass. I'm at the point where I REALLY like my flintlock long rifles, so a half stock would have to be perfect for me to want to go back. I'm all in on the fowler though.

I've been hunting with the Kibler Colonial .54 but still need to finish my .40cal SMR.

I have no idea what's in Jim's mind. It depends on how true to the original design he wants to stay. IMO he's already set up to make full stocks with flint locks. Methinks it would be easier for him to make full stock flinters. I think there's one that still exists that was made in 1829. If he makes a full stock flinter with a 40 inch barrel in .58 caliber it shouldn't weigh much more than a Colonial but it's still going to be at least a nine pound rifle
 
I have no idea what's in Jim's mind. It depends on how true to the original design he wants to stay. IMO he's already set up to make full stocks with flint locks. Methinks it would be easier for him to make full stock flinters. I think there's one that still exists that was made in 1829. If he makes a full stock flinter with a 40 inch barrel in .58 caliber it shouldn't weigh much more than a Colonial but it's still going to be at least a nine pound rifle
Were the original Hawkens swamped or straight?
 
Those interarms hawkens where nice in the hand, I had a 58 with the 15/16" barrel. I've got a barrel that was damaged and cut down at the breach so it need new thread for the plug, think the barrel is only 18-20" it's a 15/16" 58. I was going to make a short brush barrel for my h&a but never did before I sold the gun. Maybe someday I'll find a Hawken pistol kit I could make the barrel for.
 
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