Kids (legal!) solo hunting leads to woman shot in the head!

[scythefwd]

roostrider +1.
This should be about the kid not identifying his target, not that he was only 14.

Thinking it was a bear is different than knowing it was a bear. People that take shots at what they think is their prey are no better than people that shoot at sounds. Know your target and what is behind it! If you are in doubt, don't pull the trigger.

My cousin hunts by himself at the age of 13. He is ready for that responsibility, my 38 year old brother isn't.

 

[iHateRodents]

The problem is that he violated the basic rules of gun safety- know your target and what's beyond it.


You don't have to be young to be stupid. However, if you are young, and stupid, I would rather you be in the woods with a gun than on the road with a car.

 

[Kindrox]

All the people who think hunting alone on public land is kosher must also by logical extension believe that driving alone at any age is fine? Presumably after passing the driving test?

I'd like to hear a solid answer to my question:

Who here would really share a gun range with an unsupervised 10 year old?

The only answer at all was someone saying being at the range was diffent than hunting, where actually I would feel safer at the range. At least at the range there is a safe direction to point a gun and there are (where I go anyway) range officers to kind of keep an eye on safety.

People who say my XX aged kid is safer than my 50 year old relative arn't really addressing the question. There are adults who should not be packing a gun. That irresponsible person X can pack a gun is not really an argument for allowing irresponsible person Y to pack a gun.

I and the public at large are going to brand you a nut if you advocate children of any age going out alone on public land with a gun, with the full knowledge that that child is expected to draw down and fire at something.

Do you really think children of all ages always comprehend what they are shooting at and what is behind what they are shooting at? Obviously from the story, they don't. If kids by and large are capable of making these life and death decisions on their very one, out by themselves but in public settings, why on gods green earth do they even live with parents? Get them sent off to college and going in life.

And if kids are capable of this level of responsibility, why don't they face the same consequences as adults instead of 30 days?

 

[dirt_j00]

Answer mine and I'll answer yours:

And where did a 10-year-old come into this? This guy was 14.

 

[Kindrox]

This young man will have to live with what he did for the rest of his life. There is no telling how many ways it will change his life's outcome.

Too bad someone had to die for this kid to have learned a lesson. For the crowd that is all into solo hunting, why? Are you too lazy to supervise your kids? Or are you actually more dangerious with a firearm, or simply passed out drunk? I think if the parents faced a long prison term for the actions of their kids with guns, the response here would be very different.

After all, this board is largely about people looking to protect themselves from unpleasant consequences. Spending the rest of your life in jail because your kid accidently shot someone is probably the only wake up call some poeple here would understand.

 

[JohnBT]

"was going solo at about 7 or 8 and solo with a jeep at 11."

You had a Jeep?

By age 10 my cousin and I were allowed to camp totally unsupervised for the weekend or a good part of a week in the summer, but no vehicle. We were allowed our rifles and whatever ammo and firecrackers we could afford. No wonder I can't halfway hear.

God help us if we ever screwed up - like shooting the livestock or even bothering them - we would have been on permanent house arrest. Our fathers were vets and my father had been a state trooper. Not to mention being old school Methodists vying with the Baptists to see who could have the least amount of fun.

Heck, we weren't allowed to screw up even at home. Our families had standards. I shot a sparrow one time when I was 6 with the bb gun my grandparents had given me. The disappointed look on my father's face cured me of stupidity for a long, long time.

I understand that accidents happen, but pulling a trigger is serious business.

John

 

[Kindrox]

The point of my post was that in several states it is legal for kids of any age to go solo with guns on public land, if their ostensible reason is “hunting”.

This guy was 14. Legally he could have been 10. From the response of this board, obviously there are 10 year olds out there solo hunting in public. So I am discussing the most extreme cases, since some people here don’t think there should be any age restriction at all. Unless you are saying 10 is to young but 14 is fine, we can move younger still.

 

[conw]

This is unbelievably sad. The parents should sure as hell be held liable as well. I favor a minimal set of restrictions with maximal penalties should an "accident" happen like this. Parents must judge their kids' abilities and limitations. But because kids are all so different at different ages, this varies greatly, and a blanket law just misses the mark. I think harsh penalties ex post facto for mistakes, targeted at the irresponsible parents who sent their irresponsible kid out unsupervised, would do more to discourage this irresponsible behavior than just saying "One kid ruined it for everyone, now we're safe!"

 

[Kindrox]

I think harsh penalties ex post facto for mistakes, targeted at the irresponsible parents who sent their irresponsible kid out unsupervised,

A large part of my outrage at the story is there is no consequence here. The kid gets 30 days and then he is free to pick up his rifle and go back out. It's all chalked up to a learning experience for him.

I grew up rural and I understand this god given right to hunt mentality exists, even if I shoot your cows or horses, or shoot at your house, or cut your fence or smash your gates to get access to the game on private property. Growing up I saw all of this.

These same folks believe their kid has the same rights. If the parents went to jail for 20 years, the same folks here would have to start sweating a little, thinking about consequences. But right now there aren’t any.

 

[RoostRider]

WHO HERE WOULD SHARE A RANGE WITH AN UNSUPERVISED 10 YEAR OLD

I won't share an 'unsupervised' range with anyone I don't know... simple as that... once again (although it is irrelevant), age has nothing to do with it... again, I see WAY more careless adults with firearms these days than kids (and I have a kid and I deal with kids and guns fairly frequently.... my own and others)

Clearly you are not a hunter.... and likely, by your ignorant statements, you have never even been hunting.... hunting, even supervised, requires a hunter (no matter the age) to "draw down on something and fire", and you are never able to 'supervise' your hunting partners actions in any real relevant way.

Are we to assume by your comments that you expect every father teaching his kid to hunt to stand right next to him and right walk behind him with his attention firmly on the trainee until he turns 20? How else could we assure that the 'kid' is 'supervised'?

I and the public at large are going to brand you a nut if you advocate children of any age going out alone on public land with a gun

Well...... I and the public at large are going to brand you a nut if you advocate people of any age having and keeping firearms for self defense or target shooting....

I think I've heard that old rhetoric before too......

Lets see if I, or the public at large, give a flying leap what you decide to brand us each as..... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If your outrage is at the sentencing, then you should be attacking that, not the fact that kids are allowed to hunt alone.... but no..... I smell something else behind this outrage....

 

[dirt_j00]

No one is arguing that 5-year-olds should be out hunting alone. But are some 10-year-olds mature enough to hunt alone? Yes. Are some not? Yes.

The same could be said for 14, 25, 50, 75, and 100-year-olds. Should we take away their hunting rights/privileges as well?

If this is such a problem, as your are advocating, why don't we see more of these cases in these states that have no age restrictions on hunting?

And you can't seriously think that hunting and gun ranges are comparable situations. If so, you haven't participated in either very much. Two easy ones: # of people & amount of shooting

Gun ranges:
-Lots of shooting
-Lots of people

Hunting:
-Minimal shooting
-Not many people/possible no one else

C'mon, you know that's a poor analogy.

 

[Madmo]

I was hunting solo by age 14 and so were all my friends.
From what I gather in the article there were some issues with the hunting hiking area.
When you mix a hiking trial into areas where hunting is going on, you have a high risk of someone getting hurt or killed.
Now IMO the kid did not properly ID his intended target!!!!
That has nothing to do with his age. I have seen many hunters get to excited and not clearly ID their target and kill a doe or spike and not be in a county that allowed you to take either one. I have also seen where hunters not properly attired with orange or yellow vests nearly got shot.
If you are going to allow hikers to wander in and around hunting areas they need to be properly dressed with orange caps and vests otherwise someone will die!

 

[dirt_j00]

These same folks believe their kid has the same rights.

I didn't see in the article where the parent's commented... Maybe I missed it. Please show me where they said that.

EDIT: upon re-reading I think you are referring to those parents who believe in the "god given right to hunt".

 

[conw]

Kindrox, I think you get my point. If we say "10 year olds can't hunt alone, and if they do, there will be a certain penalty," vs "10 year olds can hunt alone, but you better be sure they don't mess up - because it will come back on the parents hard in civil and criminal court if they do," we would be granting more freedom (with responsibility intact) and accounting for the vast difference in individuals.

At the very least we agree about the accountability issue. I just disagree about prior restraint, even in minors. But I want looming penalties that make people think twice about sending out a kid with anything less than impeccable safety skills..

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i trust my 12 year old nephew behind me with a loaded gun. i've never seen anyone any age more careful. and i include myself. it shamed me

i've been in the woods with guys my age who use a gun in their job that i will never go again with have walked out hitchiked home a few times

 

[35Rem]

This post is borderline trolling, to me.
Lots of kids hunt, by themselves, younger than the person in the story posted. We've beat that dead horse plenty.

This OP sounds more like an Anti Hunter to me. Is this necessary? This is The High Road.

 

[Kindrox]

If this is such a problem, as your are advocating, why don't we see more of these cases in these states that have no age restrictions on hunting?

I suspect there probably arn't that many bad parents out there. As I said, I was unsupervised on my own property with a gun. I never was allowed on public land with one as a child. Also you can't give your car keys to a 14 year old in Washington and tell him to have a good time on the road. So it probably does not occure to many people that you can do so with a gun.

The same could be said for 14, 25, 50, 75, and 100-year-olds. Should we take away their hunting rights/privileges as well?

Your list is apples and oranges. Everyone in your list, except for the 14 year old, won't be able to own a firearm again after a manslaugher conviction.

And you can't seriously think that hunting and gun ranges are comparable situations.

They don't seem comparible to me at all. All a kid has to do at the gun range is keep the gun pointed downrange, and follow ceasefires. Seems safer to me then a kid picking his target and what is behind it. As I said, I grew up rural. Lots of cows and horses got killed by hunters. I've never seen that happen at the range. So I guess it is easier to shoot the correct things at the range?

I smell something else behind this outrage....

If you are smelling something, check your feet, not me. The root of gun ownership is about protection and safety. A woman died for adults allowing dumb kid to make a fatal mistake, I don't take that woman's life lightly.

Clearly you are not a hunter.... and likely, by your ignorant statements, you have never even been hunting.... hunting, even supervised, requires a hunter (no matter the age) to "draw down on something and fire", and you are never able to 'supervise' your hunting partners actions in any real relevant way.

I am not a hunter but I grew up with hunting all around me. You don't have to be holding your kid's hand to supervise him. Kids know and act different between adults being around, and adults being completely absent.

I think you are referring to those parents who believe in the "god given right to hunt".

Correct.

At the very least we agree about the accountability issue. I just disagree about prior restraint, even in minors. But I want looming penalties that make people think twice about sending out a kid with anything less than impeccable safety skills..

Real accountability for someone is a start.

This OP sounds more like an Anti Hunter to me.

Interesting. Anything less then kids of any age out alone with guns on public land is anti-hunting? I guess you would consider anything less then slipping a handgun in your child's backpack as he heads to school is anti-2A?

 

[RoostRider]

I'm with 35Rem.... you won't hear another comment from me, aside from I am not lazy or drunk (thanks for the derogatory generalization of people you don't know... very media-like of you) but my kid will be hunting alone long before he is construed an 'adult' by any legal standards if he continues to show responsibility and respect with regards to firearms and nature and has the desire.

Who knows, I might even sober up enough to get my fat butt out there with him once in a while.... lol.... sure hope he doesn't shoot me as I stumble by!

 

[oneounceload]

..... I always take into consideration if it is in a hunting area or during hunting season. Bear season had opened the day before in this case, according to this article.

Something I would bet the hiker was unaware of - and if so, she should share some of the culpability.

You folks should go read all of the "comments" being posted at the end of the article. Most of the ones from females are all soccer-mom, oh another Columbine kid type - totally against guns, etc. One was pondering what could be more dangerous than a kid with a rifle that has a scope. I almost joined just to say "A liberal politician that votes on bills they don't even read", but I didn't. It's a tragic accident, one that could have been prevented had BOTH sides been more aware of things. But the press will play for the knee-jerk reaction; remember - if it bleeds, it leads..........(besides they need to take the negative attention away from BO and the health care bill....)

 

[6-gunfun]

first i wanna say im 15 i hunt by myself i know its not legal but ive been hunting rabbits since 10 i got a bb gun at 7 and i have a gun cabinet in my room so ive been around guns and hunting all my life and ive never shot myself one of my dogs or another person and it gets me mad that u all jump and get mad @ this kid because he acidentaly shot someone well people who are legal hunters have acidentaly shot other people so how is this any diffrent?

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I have a feeling this wasn't so much about hunting as it was about two boys out in the woods playing with guns who said they were hunting when they got into this mess. There's a million videos on youtube of people (of all ages) fooling around in the woods irresponsibly with guns. Doesn't seem hard to believe that was really the case at all.

Just how all these idiots playing fast draw in the living room accidentally shoot themselves/the neighbor/dog/etc. and all of a sudden they were "cleaning the gun and it went off"

 

[dirt_j00]

Ok, more facts for this case: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.042

RCW 9.41.040(2)(a)(iii) shall not apply to any person under the age of eighteen years who is: ...

(5) In an area where the discharge of a firearm is permitted, is not trespassing, and the person either:
(a) Is at least fourteen years of age, has been issued a hunter safety certificate, and is using a lawful firearm other than a pistol; or
(b) is under the supervision of a parent, guardian, or other adult approved for the purpose by the parent or guardian;

So no worries about <14 y/o's legally hunting unsupervised in WA.

Everyone in your list, except for the 14 year old, won't be able to own a firearm again after a manslaugher conviction.

This goes back to prior restraint, as conwict mentioned.

Lots of cows and horses got killed by hunters.

Ever think some mischievous people (not necessarily hunters or kids) did that on purpose?

I will fall in line with the others. Pushing for sweeping youth-hunting reform is not the answer to this. Training, supervision, and common-sense is.

 

[Kindrox]

Something I would bet the hiker was unaware of - and if so, she should share some of the culpability.

The article does not say exactly where she was, but Skagit County is not the middle of nowhere by any stretch of the imagination. There are lots and lots of pockets of state land up there, and local kids can get to presuming that if their family farm borders state land, the state land is the same as their own. It probably never occured to the kid that he might not be alone.

Ever think some mischievous people (not necessarily hunters or kids) did that on purpose?

Just that it always happens during hunting season when anything brown and moving must be a deer. My parents where farmers, the local farming community always took note of hunting season for a reason.

I have a feeling this wasn't so much about hunting as it was about two boys out in the woods playing with guns who said they were hunting when they got into this mess.

Frankly that is why I put "hunting" in quotes. Is there anything but his word on the hunting bit?

i know its not legal but ive been hunting rabbits since 10

You understand that you are breaking the law but are choosing to do it anyway. Some might say you have demonstraited that you are too young to exercise the judgement required to walk around, alone, on public land, with a loaded firearm. Others say you are fine.

gets me mad that u all jump and get mad @ this kid because he acidentaly shot someone

When it is your mother in the story, you will understand.

 

[SuperNaut]

All the people who think hunting alone on public land is kosher must also by logical extension believe that driving alone at any age is fine? Presumably after passing the driving test?

Any age? Hellz no, I think that drivers over the age of 60 need to be accompanied by a responsible adult.

 

[conw]

[that it was hunting season is] Something I would bet the hiker was unaware of - and if so, she should share some of the culpability.

What does this even mean? She's dead, and was not intentionally impersonating a bear at any rate. And what does her awareness have to do with whether she is responsible in any way for BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD BY SOMEONE WHO FAILED TO PERFORM THE MOST BASIC, ESSENTIAL SAFETY TASK?