Kinetic Energy .45 ACP vs. .45 Colt

[JimGun]

I have a ruger Blackhawk .45 with cylinders for .45 ACP and .45 Colt.
I assumed that the .45 Colt would produce more kenetic energy, but when I look at the figures in my reloading manual it gives a different picture.
Using a formula for Kinetic Energy found in my Speer Reloading Manual , that is:
KE in foot pounds = (Velocity in FPS(squared) /450400 ) * bullet weight)
I get the following results:
.45 ACP 230 gr. L-RN 5.6 grs Win. 231 mzl. Vel. 837 KE= 352.6399 foot pounds
.45 Colt 250 gr. HP-XTP 6.1 grs Win. 231 mzl. Vel. 600 KE=199.8224 foot pounds.
Can someone please explain the advantage of using .45 Colt over .45 ACP?

 

[uneasy_rider]

Energy is more dependent upon velocity than mass.

Your 45 Colt loads only have a velocity of 600 fps. That is pitiful. I mean its ok for plinking, but that is a very low energy load. You are below the recommended starting weight. The WW powder website gives a range of 6.5-7.3grains for a 250g XTP bullet.

Your 45 ACP loads are about right at 837 fps.

45 Colt is traditionally loaded to about the same velocity as 45 ACP, ie, 800 to 850 fps.

If you load 45 Colt to the same velocity as 45 ACP, you will get the same energy (assuming bullet weights are the same), or more energy if you load the usual 250g slug.

 

[stormspotter]

Do a search online and check out Handloader magazine, April 2005, for some good 45 colt loads in the Ruger New Vaquero.

 

[Zoogster]

Those figures are definately on the lower end of a .45 colt load.

You can use a wider range of bullet weights with .45 colt. You can also use blackpowder effectively if you wanted to as the case dimensions of a .45 Colt are designed for it.

The larger case capacity also means you could fine tune the cartridge to longer barrels better, perhaps for use out of a carbine generating even more energy.

You can get into the .44 magnum energy range with good loads in .45 colt, and with less pressure in the right revolvers.

Now don't go blowing up your gun, but the .45 colt can be loaded much higher than that, while the .45ACP is limited because with such a small case it will be pushing the pressure limitations with just small increases in power. The smaller case cycles better in an auto, but the longer case is far superior in a revolver, for both raw power and flexibility in bullet weights and operating pressures.

 

[zxcvbob]

I load my .45 Colt plinking loads to about 1000 fps or a little higher.

I've loaded some to about 1000 foot-pounds, but those are not so much fun to shoot.

 

[rcmodel]

The orginial .45 Colt black powder load 130 years ago was a 250 - 255 grain bullet at 950 - 1,000 FPS out of a 7 1/2" Colt SAA.

You can easily get 1,400 FPS with a 250 in your Blackhawk.
Do the math on that one!

Todays wimpy Cowboy Action game loads are not even close to what the .45 Colt started out being.

rcmodel

 

[eldon519]

This is a link to Hodgdon's load data menu:
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Go down to the listing for "45 Colt (Ruger, Freedom Arms & T/C only)".

You'll find plenty of loads that'll put a smile on your face and an ache in your hand. In a Ruger Blackhawk, .44 magnum and .45 Colt +P produce equivalent power levels.

Also, on a side note, kinetic energy doesn't tell the whole story. To use the .45 Colt+P as an example, a 240-grain bullet at 1450fps will have more muzzle energy than a 300-grain bullet at 1200fps, but the 300-grain bullet will penetrate a lot deeper and typically would be chosen over the 240-grain bullet for big animals like bears.

 

[moosehunt]

Remember back in 8th grade--E=mc2? (That's supposed to be c squared) Energy = mass x velocty squared. Well, it hasn't changed. It doesn't matter if it came out of a .45LC case, a .45ACP case, or a .454 Casull case. If the mass (bullet weight) is the same and the velocity is the same, then the energy is the same. In your initial post, you are comparing apples to oranges. That doesn't work. Even the caliber doesn't matter. A 200 gr .45 bullet at 950 fps has the same energy as a 200 gr .38 bullet would have at 950 fps.

 

[JimGun]

I appreciate the comments. I have only loaded .45 ACP and only used Win 231.
In the Hodgdon website they list four different powders for Luger/TC Contender loads - H4227, h110, Lil'gun, and Titegroup. Could you give some opinion on these powders if you have used any? Thanks

 

[zxcvbob]

My favorite .45 Colt plinking load is 7.5 grains of Alliant Promo (Red Dot) with a 230 grain cast bullet. It speaks with authority, but the recoil is managable and you can shoot it all day without hurting yourself. It's about a 20000 psi load, but I haven't chronographed it (should be between 1000 and 1100 fps, closer to 1100) This is from a Ruger Bisley-Blackhawk with 7.5 inch barrel.

12.2 grains of WSF or Herco with a 250 grain cast bullet clocks over 1300 fps. But that's maybe a 27000 psi load, and I don't think I'll go that high again.

25 grains of H-110 or 296 (w/ 250 grain bullet) will give you about 1400 fps at only about 24000 psi. It'll get your attention.

Any of these in a 1st generation Colt, or anything made before WWII for that matter, will likely ruin your day.

 

[Hunter0924]

Many loading manuals have a separate section for Ruger and T/C firearms.
.45 Colt can be loaded close to .44 magnum energy but should be done the same as working up any load. When experimenting with hot loads care should be used and the manual followed as well as standard practice of working up to a hot load.
Make no mistake the .45 Colt is not just for plinking.
http://customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

 

[ranger335v]

Your fomula shows the effect uneasy mentioned; "(Velocity in FPS(squared) /450400 ) * bullet weight"

Doubling the mass (weight) of the bullet doubles the impact. Doubling the velocity gives four times the impact due to the square law effect.

 

[jd70]

I use 7.5 grains of titegroup over a 200 grn cast lead round nose flat point bullet. With titegroup case volume don't mean much. (ie small volume of powder in a big case with no filler and little varience in ft per second per shot.) Its a snappy load and I get good groups out of my blackhawk with it.

 

[eldon519]

H-110 and Lil' Gun are both excellent powders for .44-magnum-like loads. I do not have much experience with the other two, but if I recall correctly, neither generates quite the velocities produced by the above mentioned. Both H-110 and Lil' Gun like magnum primers as they are slow powders and harder to ignite. Neither lends itself well to reduced loads, so if you are looking for more of a .45 Colt+P rather than a .45 Colt "Magnum" try the H4227 or Titegroup.

 

[campbell]

In the Hodgdon website they list four different powders for Luger/TC Contender loads - H4227, h110, Lil'gun, and Titegroup. Could you give some opinion on these powders if you have used any?

Titegroup can do nice plinker rounds, but the slow powders like Lil Gun are where the real action is at for hunting loads. In addition to the Hodgdon data, this Taffin article has good loads.