Kirst Konverter ROA question

[rockdc]

I'm about ready to start loading 45 Colt for the Konverter I'll soon be getting for my ROAs. Does the Kirst cylinder take full length 45 Colt cartidges? I'll be starting with 255 SWC from Reloads n more in Stoneham MA over Unique.

rockdc

 

[J-Bar]

I love my Kirst converters in my ROAs, and they will take any black powder load, but I would never use them with any smokeless cartridge. Overly cautious perhaps, but I see no reason to do otherwise. I use full length .45 colt brass with no fillers, just a case full of powder.

 

[arielredhunter]

Yeah, me too. Full loads of black powder. I couldn't even begin to guess how many rifles and pistols have been blown up with miniscule loads of smokeless powder.

 

[45 Dragoon]

You guys HAVE to be kidding! Some folks convert to USE smokless!!!

45 Dragoon

 

[J-Bar]

You guys HAVE to be kidding! Some folks convert to USE smokless!!!

45 Dragoon

I know it is done. I hope rockdc is a responsible enough reloader to do it safely. It just concerned me that he did not know that a .45 Colt case could be used without trimming. You will have to admit that black powder is quite a bit more forgiving than Unique.

I don't use smokeless loads in a converter because I have other .45s for that purpose.

 

[EljaySL]

The big thing if you're going smokeless is to start low and use a chrono to get some insight as to if it's doing what you think it should be doing. That being said I developed a smokeless load for my converter and then never made any past that because it's just not nearly as fun.

 

[yamahawarrior89]

I used a converter from taylor firearms

And bought it to use smokeless powder as I was getting sick of cleaning. Mine was for a 1858 remington replica and never had a problem. I won't post any loads but I am sure I went above "cowboy" velocities. Use lead or plated and have fun. Just don't get carried away or get into ruger only territory.

With a full load of ffg, you get about 850-950 fps? With smokeless you can load below that without fillers.

 

[45 Dragoon]

LOL, you know rockdc, I don't so it may be appropriate. Shooting b.p. is a big ordeal where I live so indoor ranges are the way to go. As far as factory loads go, I don't know of any lead loaded rounds that are too "hot " for the conversions. The're all under a thousand fps. As far as shooting smokless loads in "others", my converted 6 shooters are better, and more accurate than most "made for smokless" 6 shooters are . At the very least as good as. That's my reason for setting them up in the first place, not just noise makers.
One for instance is my new Uberti El Patron Competition. I have worked it over to suit my standards and it is a VERY nice arm and is very accurate. I hope It will stay up with my two 1st Mod. Dragoons that print three hole clusters regularly as well as my '60 Army , all three have Kirst gated Konversions and have been highly modified.


45 Dragoon

 

[J-Bar]

45 Dragoon:

I can see your point. Indoor ranges around here don't like blackpowder either, so I don't use them.

Unfortunately I have never met rockdc; Im sure he's a fine fellow and hope we can shoot together some day. I did not intend my comments to disparage him at all. I am just a very conservative reloader, which I demonstrated in my first post. Observing what smokeless powder can do to a friend's blackpowder firearm was a powerful lesson.

 

[45 Dragoon]

J-Bar, understood.
Just as anything else, it's best to be educated in what you are doing and very much so if it envolves gunpowder!! Reloading is something that needs to be taken VERYseriously and I too, hope rockdc proceeds with caution!!! Be aware that the loading limits for the upper ranges are just as important as the lower limits!! Too little of a charge can result in detonation which is as dangerous as an overload situation!! Keep your head, stay within the limits!! Most of all . . . . . . enjoy your conversions!!!! They are exceptionally well made and extreamly safe!

45 Dragoon

 

[Nite Ryder]

I have two converters for ROA revolvers and I did load light loads of Trailboss in them when I first bought them, I also used light weight 45 caliber cast bullets. If I were going to shoot them more often than my other single action guns, I would be using triple FG and nothing else. Yes, these guns can be quite accurate but to make a statement that a Uberti shooting BP is more accurate than cartridge guns is a real stretch of someones imagination.

 

[AbitNutz]

The Kirst Konverter is really awesome. They also make Classicballistx cylinders under contract...absolutely top of the line materials and machine work.

Where I find the Kirst most valuable is in practicing for a competition. It allows me to take far more shots in the same amount of time. If I use Trail Boss, I can duplicate the point of impact and recoil and shoot pretty much forever without cleaning.

A Kirst can really help you get your skills up. You can concentrate on shooting and ignore loading. Of course, that ignores most of the fun...

 

[rockdc]

Thanks for all the great replies, and for the concern. Believe me, I am super careful, and I appreciate the serious nature of reloading. I've been at it for 14 years now, and although I've read everything I could get my hands on, I'm always learning.

Turns out the ROA (Ruger Old Army) is by far my favorite gun. And my club is just putting the finishing touches on our indoor range. Here in New England that is going to be nice in winter, along with the shorter days severely limiting outdoor range time. No BP indoors shooting; can't imagine why....

I'm in the hunt for a Blackhawk in 45 Colt so the ROA will have a close cousin that can shoot BP, and smokeless without a question. I want to have that option in the ROA, so my question was whether the Kirst in the ROA had enough length for a regular sized 45 Colt loaded cartridge w/ a 255 SWC out front, whatever powder it's (conservatively) loaded with.

rockdc

 

[45 Dragoon]

Nite Ryder, don't really care if you believe me or not (I think it quite forward for you to basically call me a liar, but maybe you're lacking in the accuracy dept. and feel better calling others liars). The work i do on my guns is my passion and i do it for me and those that want the same out of their open tops. Your comment suggests that i said i shoot b.p. If you will read the text again, ( im typing slow here) you will notice that i DON'T shoot b.p.!! Shooting b.p. where i live is a p.i.t.a. !!!The things i do to my guns can be done to all Colt style single actions. The chamber/bore alignment has been fixed and is enhanced with a bolt block. The action has been enhanced with a stop to extend parts life. Triggers break at 2 lbs. The b/c gap is ,003 on the Dragoons , .006 on the '60 Army. The El Patron Comp. came with a .004 and it has been treated to my normal "to do" list which includes the enhancements mentioned above.

AbitNutz, I agree with your thoughts on the Kirst product. I had all the "fun" I ever want with b.p. 20+ yrs ago !!! I used to shoot 3 Dragoons and a Walker and a brass framed Remy .44 Army almost every weekend (for about 2 yrs.) !!!! Loooooooooots of "cleaning fun"!!! (Glad I got over it !! LOL) Now, I can take my fav.type guns to the range, shoot as much as i want, come home and put them away. I go through them now and then but i don't have to check the clearances / tolerances every time i shoot. They're about as maint. free as a '73 Colt which is my goal with open tops.

45 Dragoon

 

[45 Dragoon]

rock dc, I think that Kirst would say in the description if you would have to shoot reloads only (or .45 Sch.). The cylinders in the Uberti made '60's are too short for factory loads, that's why i got a kit for the Pietta made '60.


45 Dragoon

 

[rockdc]

45 Dragoon,

Again, thanks for your knowledgeable replies. I will of course check to see what Kirst has to say, and add that to the mix of info thoughts and ideas I get from the forum. I posted here because there are a bunch of great fellow cap and ball and ROA nuts here.

rockdc

 

[highlander 5]

You could always use 45 Schofield brass and loads just to be safe.

 

[MRRAGPICKER]

For my ROA with a Kirst, I use Ultramax Cowboy action smokeless cartridges with the 250 grain flat nose.

 

[rcflint]

I have shot smokeless in both Kirst and R&D cylinders for many years, and hardly ever BP. I have Kirst and R&D cylinders in Pietta and Uberti Remingtons, an Uberti 5-shot in an 1860, (all will accept a 200 gr bullet in a 45 Colt case). I have several Uberti 1851 and 1861 Colt types with R&D cylinders, shooting 148 gr Hollow base wadcutters.

I have R&D cylinders for my RIOs as well. The cylinder is the pressure vessel, and the steel Kenny and Walt use is modern ordnance steel. Use Cowboy loading data and they are safe.

 

[CraigC]

Some folks convert to USE smokless!!!

Yep! I'd rather be shooting than cleaning so I use smokeless in my conversions exclusively. As long as you load within the gun's limitations, there is no issue whatsoever.