knife carry laws in NYC
- Thread starter che_70b
- Start date
- Status
4" max blade length, no gravity,butterfly,switchblade, automatic or assisted opening knives. No open carry, no locking blades. This link will spell it out.http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ny.txt
BTW, carrying a knife for self defense automatically makes the knife a "dangerous weapon". So, remember that you never carry a common pocket knife that is a utensil for self defense purposes in NYC. It is always a tool for some utilitarian purpose.
Dr. Snubnose
Member
A very important point to remember is in NYC a knife clipped to the inside of your pocket with the clip showing is and can be viewed by Law Enforcement Agents as a weapon that is not concealed...the knife if seen will probably be taken from you and you will probably be charged with a crime and forced to make a court appearance. This kind of thing is happening more and more in the city....So if you must carry in the city make sure that knife is deep in the pocket and not clipped....Doc
PRM,
What leads you to the conclusion that a lock blade would be illegal to carry in NYC?
What leads you to the conclusion that a lock blade would be illegal to carry in NYC?
wcwhitey
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 2,814
Read para 2 of 165.01 CPW 4, only with the intent to use unlawfully. This means Menacing or Assaulting someone. A pocket knife will not put you in violation of the Penal Law. In NYC a pocket knife over 4" is a violation of the Administrative Code and may get you a summons. Don't make more out of it more than there is. It you cause injury to someone with a feather then the feather becomes a weapon, same in every state of the union. I understand the anti NY thing, I agree in most cases but sometimes people need to read before they speak. BTW, Dr. Snubnose, I would like to see proof of someone getting summonsed or arrested for an exposed clip on their spyderco. Stop fueling the ignorance.
Bullnettles
Member
I've recently been to NYC and had no idea they were so strict on weapons (I know, I should have researched.) I carried a Kershaw AO a clip and never thought twice about it. To think I could've been arrested for a pocket knife makes me ill.
Dr. Snubnose
Member
WC Whit; QUOTE Dr. Snubnose, I would like to see proof of someone getting summonsed or arrested for an exposed clip on their spyderco. Stop fueling the ignorance.
I know of several cases that went to court already...so educated yourself dude...or better yet walk down the steps to the subway in NYC with your spydie clipped to your pocket and see what happens...Have fun!!!...Doc
I know of several cases that went to court already...so educated yourself dude...or better yet walk down the steps to the subway in NYC with your spydie clipped to your pocket and see what happens...Have fun!!!...Doc
PRM
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,111
Section 5 of the link in hansli's post.
5. "Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]
Don't plan on going there, but, I found the post interesting assuming the link is current. Personally, I am a died in the wool gun-toting, religion clinging conservative. Heck, when I grew up, boys carried pocket knives with the same frequency as they wore socks. During squirrel season, if you was fortunate enough to have a pick-up, most likely there was a shotgun behind the seat when you went to high school. Times have changed, even in the South - I sure miss some parts of it though.
Last edited:
PRM,
That "note" is not part of the statute. It is inserted by Levine as commentary. While I respect Bernard's work and often refer people to his site, a comment shouldn't be taken as law.
That "note" is not part of the statute. It is inserted by Levine as commentary. While I respect Bernard's work and often refer people to his site, a comment shouldn't be taken as law.
shiftyer1
Member
What s a dangerous knife? Isn't that a very vague provision? Although it also states several crimes being commited at the same time.
PRM
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,111
Thanks for clearing that up - I don't travel a lot, when I do it is usually toward the mountains or more open spaces. Not much for big cities. Large crowds and massive traffic jams don't have much of a draw for me. Lot of good people live there, but if I know a place is anti-gun/knife and a little to the extreme, I check it off my vacation list. Rather boil up some crawfish with close friends, maybe do a little camping, hunting, fishing, or shooting, if you get my drift.
wcwhitey
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 2,814
Dr. Snubnose, My comments were maybe not the Highroad, for that I apologize, but there is a reason.
First, there is no such law as an unconcealed pocket knife. In NYC a pocket knife over 4" is a violation of the NYC Administrative Code, not a criminal statute of any form and administrative one subject to a fine. There is no requirement that a knife be concealed, a Leatherman for instance worn on a belt is in no way a violation neither is you clipped pocket knife.
Second, what I stated about "intent to use the same unlawfully against another". This speaks to using an item in the commission of a crime. An example would be Robbery at knifepoint. In this case the knife would be chargable under CPW 4. For that matter so would a baseball bat, kitchen knife, feather, you fill in the blank.
Third, The term "dangerous" is a legal term and is broken down into dangerous and deadly, neither apply to your pocket knife.
"Dangerous Instrument: means any instrument, article or substance, including a "vehicle" as that term is defined in this section, which, under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or other serious physical injury".
Fourth, Gravity Knife. This item remains from the 1950's when switchblades and stiletto's were big ticket items in NYC. A gravity knife is a knife similar to the German Paratrooper knife. They were designed like a stiletto but the blade fell free by it's own weight, out the front. This has been stretched over the years to include knifes like the old 007 wood handles knifes that it was common to loosen up so they would open with the flick of a wrist, maybe a regional thing but they were popular. A traditional lock back knife does not fall under this category.
You have to look at NYC history to get an idea where some of these things come from, the Draft Riots (The Gangs of New York), the Brooklyn Waterfront and the numerous riots and gang wars. I myself have never seen a pilum ballistic knife other than a museum, but at one time they did exist.
Self Defense: In the NYS Penal law Self Defense is justification "A person may use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably beliefes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another person.
I hope this clears a few things up, go ahead and carry your knife. And BTW Dr. Snubnose these are direct quotes from the NYS Penal Law and the Criminal Procedure Law. I pretty much have them memorized but I wanted to check my books prior to responding. You see you get familiar with them when you have to enforce them for going on almost 20 years. That means down in the Subway, up on the street, at the riot, when the towers are falling, etc. Bill
First, there is no such law as an unconcealed pocket knife. In NYC a pocket knife over 4" is a violation of the NYC Administrative Code, not a criminal statute of any form and administrative one subject to a fine. There is no requirement that a knife be concealed, a Leatherman for instance worn on a belt is in no way a violation neither is you clipped pocket knife.
Second, what I stated about "intent to use the same unlawfully against another". This speaks to using an item in the commission of a crime. An example would be Robbery at knifepoint. In this case the knife would be chargable under CPW 4. For that matter so would a baseball bat, kitchen knife, feather, you fill in the blank.
Third, The term "dangerous" is a legal term and is broken down into dangerous and deadly, neither apply to your pocket knife.
"Dangerous Instrument: means any instrument, article or substance, including a "vehicle" as that term is defined in this section, which, under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or other serious physical injury".
Fourth, Gravity Knife. This item remains from the 1950's when switchblades and stiletto's were big ticket items in NYC. A gravity knife is a knife similar to the German Paratrooper knife. They were designed like a stiletto but the blade fell free by it's own weight, out the front. This has been stretched over the years to include knifes like the old 007 wood handles knifes that it was common to loosen up so they would open with the flick of a wrist, maybe a regional thing but they were popular. A traditional lock back knife does not fall under this category.
You have to look at NYC history to get an idea where some of these things come from, the Draft Riots (The Gangs of New York), the Brooklyn Waterfront and the numerous riots and gang wars. I myself have never seen a pilum ballistic knife other than a museum, but at one time they did exist.
Self Defense: In the NYS Penal law Self Defense is justification "A person may use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably beliefes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another person.
I hope this clears a few things up, go ahead and carry your knife. And BTW Dr. Snubnose these are direct quotes from the NYS Penal Law and the Criminal Procedure Law. I pretty much have them memorized but I wanted to check my books prior to responding. You see you get familiar with them when you have to enforce them for going on almost 20 years. That means down in the Subway, up on the street, at the riot, when the towers are falling, etc. Bill
Carl Levitian
member
its really too bad that some anti knife hysteria that gets taken out of context and blown out of proportion would keep somebody from one of the most interesting cities in our country.
Having been to the big apple many times, and planning more, I never tire of the museums, art gallerys, 5 star resturaunts, shows, and people watching on the subway. It's even better than my hometown of Washington D.C.
I've carrried Gerber LST's, Spyderco lady bugs, sak's, Opinels, and many other locking blade knives with no problems. I've found the New York City police officers to be polite, helpfull individuals who will go out of thier way to help an out of town tourist. To the point of stopping midway explaining how to get someplace and saying "Aw heck, get in the car and we'll take ya there, pal" We got a police escort to the front door of the gallery we were looking for. And they have a exellent sense of justice. I know of one person who had to defend themselves, and they did it with something that was of a questionable nature. He was taken in the front of the station, walked through to a side door of the station, and told to get lost, don't say nothin, just go.
Going about your buisness in New York city, you have to really be a screwup to get arrested. If you get busted by a New York city cop, ya deserve it.
Just take a normal pocket knife with you, carry a sturdy walking stick like a blackthorn if your that worried about being attacked, and enjoy a great city with great people, and great stuff to experiance.
Che, drop a sak in your pocket and go have fun. It's all your gonna need. No need to go naked without a pocket knife.
I really feel sorry for the insecure people who can't leave thier toys behind and go explore life. Even in London a small sak is okay to carry. Same with Paris. I guess I can't fathom never going to the British Museum or the Louve, and seeing some of the most amazing items known to man.
As for never going north of the Mason Dixon line, they don't serve real pizza south of New Jersey.
Everyone need to go to New York city at least once in your life. If you can make it to Paris, even better.
Having been to the big apple many times, and planning more, I never tire of the museums, art gallerys, 5 star resturaunts, shows, and people watching on the subway. It's even better than my hometown of Washington D.C.
I've carrried Gerber LST's, Spyderco lady bugs, sak's, Opinels, and many other locking blade knives with no problems. I've found the New York City police officers to be polite, helpfull individuals who will go out of thier way to help an out of town tourist. To the point of stopping midway explaining how to get someplace and saying "Aw heck, get in the car and we'll take ya there, pal" We got a police escort to the front door of the gallery we were looking for. And they have a exellent sense of justice. I know of one person who had to defend themselves, and they did it with something that was of a questionable nature. He was taken in the front of the station, walked through to a side door of the station, and told to get lost, don't say nothin, just go.
Going about your buisness in New York city, you have to really be a screwup to get arrested. If you get busted by a New York city cop, ya deserve it.
Just take a normal pocket knife with you, carry a sturdy walking stick like a blackthorn if your that worried about being attacked, and enjoy a great city with great people, and great stuff to experiance.
Che, drop a sak in your pocket and go have fun. It's all your gonna need. No need to go naked without a pocket knife.
I really feel sorry for the insecure people who can't leave thier toys behind and go explore life. Even in London a small sak is okay to carry. Same with Paris. I guess I can't fathom never going to the British Museum or the Louve, and seeing some of the most amazing items known to man.
As for never going north of the Mason Dixon line, they don't serve real pizza south of New Jersey.
Everyone need to go to New York city at least once in your life. If you can make it to Paris, even better.
Last edited:
Dr. Snubnose
Member
Hey WC, no apology needed and thanks for the info...but someone in NYC is enforcing another type of law...I'll post some stories...from various indivduals that I know:...Doc
Arrested for a harpy!
Hey guys,
I wanted to share something that happened to me two nights ago. While on an overnight business trip to Manhattan I invited my 27 year old cousin to come down from upstate New York, figuring we could spend some guy time and he could crash in my hotel room afterwards. The first part of the night was fine, we took a cab from the hotel to the Village, had dinner at a favorite restaurant, met up with friends and took in a comedy show, then hit two bars before deciding to call it a night and catch a cab home. The time was approximately 2 AM. Because I had a presentation to give the next day I had slightly less than him to drink, so at this point I was still sober and he was slightly tipsy, but still well in control of himself.
There was still plenty of foot traffic on the in the Lower East Side of Manhattan as people were coming and going from the popular bars in the area. We were on Ave C between 9th and 8th Avenues. I stood on the corner and outstretched my hand to hail one of several yellow cabs that were at the intersection. Suddenly, one of the cabs pulled up right in front of us. Two men in civilian clothes jumped out of the cab and said they were NYPD and told us to put our hands on the trunk. We complied and when I asked what the problem was one of the officers stated that he had spotted an illegal knife in my cousins pocket. "How the hell did he 'see' a knife if it was in his pocket?", I wondered.
Apparently my cousin had been wearing his newly purchased Harpy in his pocket, but with the clip on the outside of the pocket. This is what the officer saw. Both of us are avid knife collectors and know well enough that a harpy passes the four-finger rule and is not illegal. As a matter of fact my cousin bought the knife from an upstate New York gun shop that would not have sold the knife if it were not fully legal. The only reason I didn't have my own harpy on me was that I had flown into New York and only had
carry on luggage.
We both tell the cop that the harpy isn't illegal when he says that it is a "gravity blade". To demonstrate, he tries to flick the harpy open with one hand by flicking his wrist.
It doesn't open.
The cop quickly opens the knife with TWO HANDS and then tells his partner to handcuff my cousin. They wouldn't listen to anything we had to say and soon they had sped off with him without any further explanation.
I won't go into detail about the horrible night I spent calling precinct after precinct in a vain attempt to find my cousin. Or about the absolutely deplorable conditions he was subjected to FOR TWO AND HALF DAYS in jail. When he finally saw a judge he was given two options by his public defender: plead guilty to "possession of a deadly weapon" and be released with a fine, or plead innocent and spend at least a month in Rikers Island prison waiting for a trial. If anyone on these boards has heard half of what goes on in Rikers, you know that this was no option at all.
So he was railroaded into pleading guilty. With court costs and a few other "ancillary"'' costs, the total fine was over $400. Plus they confiscated his brand new, $90 Harpy. Now he has this charge on his record and, among other things, will never be able to apply for a gun permit.
I'd love to hear what you guys think, as well as whether or not he has any legal options at this point. Of course, he will be buying another Harpy as soon as possible, but we will both be steering clear of New York City and it's ever vigilant police force.
another report from someone telling some other person, that if he wears his knife IWB and is worried about getting charge with criminal possession of a dangerous weapon etc:
No you won't get that charge for a fb 3/34 or less. As long as you can't see it.
NYC has these lwas on the books but really never enforced them til 9/11.
A recent wave with LEO now have been looking for people with clips on their jean pockets. I seen one in action also.
A releative is going through this now and I have been helping him as of this morning when he contacted me.
Coming from the hospital after seening his mom after her surgery , he got there after work ( construction).
GB if you are NYC local maybe we can hook up to try and beat these issues.
and still another:
Worst nightmare came true: PD confiscated my ParaMilitary..
Okay, I'm walking down the stairs at the Grand Central subway station (not the railroad station) and I make it 1/2 way down the platform and cop and his azzhat partner grabs my knife and says "why are you carrying this?" I say, it's a tool, I work at the Army Navy store (which I do, but I didn't go today) and his tone was the equivalent of calling BS on me. They were like, "why doesn't it have tape residue on it or anything", I go "it's a $95 knife, I take care of it" and he says I'm giving him an attitude..and says he could have arrested me, but I don't have a prior record..
Somewhere in that conversation I told him it was a legal knife, but he flicked it open and said, "nope, gravity knife" and checks out the edge I put on it.
I ended up with a summons, where I have to meet with a judge or something..
To add insult to injury, I got stuck in the middle of East Harlem, in the rain, since the trains were halted to due to gas station leak..
There are more stories, too many that I care to reprint...fact is some cops are on the lookout and hassling people for knives clipped to their pants pocket as exposed. Arrests have been made and summons issued...I would like to add this, I also know of a story where one of my friends had a Cold Steel Spike in it's ex-secure sheath dangling around by his knee..hanging from a beaded chain static cord....it had fallen out of his waistband carry position...he was stopped by NYPD, questioned and the officer asked about his dangling knife which he removed from the sheath...just checked it out...said "nice knife" handed it back and told him to sheath it and keep it more secure...my friend thanked the officer who told him he was free to go....
Point here is, I'm not bashing the NYPD, they have a very large department with many officers....and of course one should not make any assumptions about the NYPD based on a small amount of occurrences that have taken place...All I was trying to point it is that...this kinda thing does and possibly will happen again...so just makes yourself aware and all should be fine....Doc
Arrested for a harpy!
Hey guys,
I wanted to share something that happened to me two nights ago. While on an overnight business trip to Manhattan I invited my 27 year old cousin to come down from upstate New York, figuring we could spend some guy time and he could crash in my hotel room afterwards. The first part of the night was fine, we took a cab from the hotel to the Village, had dinner at a favorite restaurant, met up with friends and took in a comedy show, then hit two bars before deciding to call it a night and catch a cab home. The time was approximately 2 AM. Because I had a presentation to give the next day I had slightly less than him to drink, so at this point I was still sober and he was slightly tipsy, but still well in control of himself.
There was still plenty of foot traffic on the in the Lower East Side of Manhattan as people were coming and going from the popular bars in the area. We were on Ave C between 9th and 8th Avenues. I stood on the corner and outstretched my hand to hail one of several yellow cabs that were at the intersection. Suddenly, one of the cabs pulled up right in front of us. Two men in civilian clothes jumped out of the cab and said they were NYPD and told us to put our hands on the trunk. We complied and when I asked what the problem was one of the officers stated that he had spotted an illegal knife in my cousins pocket. "How the hell did he 'see' a knife if it was in his pocket?", I wondered.
Apparently my cousin had been wearing his newly purchased Harpy in his pocket, but with the clip on the outside of the pocket. This is what the officer saw. Both of us are avid knife collectors and know well enough that a harpy passes the four-finger rule and is not illegal. As a matter of fact my cousin bought the knife from an upstate New York gun shop that would not have sold the knife if it were not fully legal. The only reason I didn't have my own harpy on me was that I had flown into New York and only had
carry on luggage.
We both tell the cop that the harpy isn't illegal when he says that it is a "gravity blade". To demonstrate, he tries to flick the harpy open with one hand by flicking his wrist.
It doesn't open.
The cop quickly opens the knife with TWO HANDS and then tells his partner to handcuff my cousin. They wouldn't listen to anything we had to say and soon they had sped off with him without any further explanation.
I won't go into detail about the horrible night I spent calling precinct after precinct in a vain attempt to find my cousin. Or about the absolutely deplorable conditions he was subjected to FOR TWO AND HALF DAYS in jail. When he finally saw a judge he was given two options by his public defender: plead guilty to "possession of a deadly weapon" and be released with a fine, or plead innocent and spend at least a month in Rikers Island prison waiting for a trial. If anyone on these boards has heard half of what goes on in Rikers, you know that this was no option at all.
So he was railroaded into pleading guilty. With court costs and a few other "ancillary"'' costs, the total fine was over $400. Plus they confiscated his brand new, $90 Harpy. Now he has this charge on his record and, among other things, will never be able to apply for a gun permit.
I'd love to hear what you guys think, as well as whether or not he has any legal options at this point. Of course, he will be buying another Harpy as soon as possible, but we will both be steering clear of New York City and it's ever vigilant police force.
another report from someone telling some other person, that if he wears his knife IWB and is worried about getting charge with criminal possession of a dangerous weapon etc:
No you won't get that charge for a fb 3/34 or less. As long as you can't see it.
NYC has these lwas on the books but really never enforced them til 9/11.
A recent wave with LEO now have been looking for people with clips on their jean pockets. I seen one in action also.
A releative is going through this now and I have been helping him as of this morning when he contacted me.
Coming from the hospital after seening his mom after her surgery , he got there after work ( construction).
GB if you are NYC local maybe we can hook up to try and beat these issues.
and still another:
Worst nightmare came true: PD confiscated my ParaMilitary..
Okay, I'm walking down the stairs at the Grand Central subway station (not the railroad station) and I make it 1/2 way down the platform and cop and his azzhat partner grabs my knife and says "why are you carrying this?" I say, it's a tool, I work at the Army Navy store (which I do, but I didn't go today) and his tone was the equivalent of calling BS on me. They were like, "why doesn't it have tape residue on it or anything", I go "it's a $95 knife, I take care of it" and he says I'm giving him an attitude..and says he could have arrested me, but I don't have a prior record..
Somewhere in that conversation I told him it was a legal knife, but he flicked it open and said, "nope, gravity knife" and checks out the edge I put on it.
I ended up with a summons, where I have to meet with a judge or something..
To add insult to injury, I got stuck in the middle of East Harlem, in the rain, since the trains were halted to due to gas station leak..
There are more stories, too many that I care to reprint...fact is some cops are on the lookout and hassling people for knives clipped to their pants pocket as exposed. Arrests have been made and summons issued...I would like to add this, I also know of a story where one of my friends had a Cold Steel Spike in it's ex-secure sheath dangling around by his knee..hanging from a beaded chain static cord....it had fallen out of his waistband carry position...he was stopped by NYPD, questioned and the officer asked about his dangling knife which he removed from the sheath...just checked it out...said "nice knife" handed it back and told him to sheath it and keep it more secure...my friend thanked the officer who told him he was free to go....
Point here is, I'm not bashing the NYPD, they have a very large department with many officers....and of course one should not make any assumptions about the NYPD based on a small amount of occurrences that have taken place...All I was trying to point it is that...this kinda thing does and possibly will happen again...so just makes yourself aware and all should be fine....Doc
Last edited:
Sig 226 .40
Member
A lot of this depends on the officers knife education and how he/she percieves you the owner. I am a state court officer and have heard of many of these incidents. Upstate, we're not so anal about it. But if you come into my courthouse with a gravity knife(very loose blade not the german paratrooper type), you're not a dick to the officers....we just might find an allen wrench and give your knife a little tightening. We will also give you a friendly reminder that next time you come to court...leave the knife in your car. I got better things to do then make an arrest for a knife that was A)not designed as a gravity knife and B)loosened up due to the fact that it probably cost less than a meal at McDonalds. It also makes us out to be "Pretty cool guys" with the folks. However, if I tell you that the knife is loose, and you give me or another officer a ration of Shyt...BING!! You're toast!! I'm very sympathetic to knife owners...I only have about 200 or so in my collection.
- Status
