Knight Rifle Powder Help......

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HunterGirl

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My aunt won a Knight muzzleloader and gave it to me for deer hunting. I took it out for the first time a couple of weeks ago. We were using 777 powder and it fouled up so badly that we had to clean after almost every single round.

Afterwards we saw in the manual (which I had read before going out - just must have missed this part) that 777 can be especially bad in this rifle.

Are there any recommendations for this particular rifle? My dad has been talking about Pioneer powder and how clean that is.....

Thanks!
 
The reason why 777 can be bad in the Knight, or ANY muzzleloader in fact, is because of eratic pressures and velocities that can result from pressure during loading.

I use 777 in my Remington revolvers, and, and when I load the chambers with too much pressure, I begin to get erratic velocities. When I load them too lightly, velocities drop, all the way low. There was one cylinder-full I let loose at the range,using a Beta Chrony, and discovered that some of my loads were averaging at about 1100 feet per second, while another chamber pounded out about 850 fps.

With 777, you have to trust your instincts, on how much pressure you put on your load. The substitute tends to act a little like smokeless powder, combustion wise, but I find it very useful, little smoke, and little crud.

American Pioneer has some good marketing strategy, but their product is mediocre. APP always give consistently lower velocities than all other powders and substitutes when loaded by volume comparison. 777 is actually a bit cleaner than APP.

There is yet another new substitute on the market now, I believe it is called Shockey's GOLD, made by famous hunter Jim Shockey. It reportedly performs a lot like 777, but I didn't try it. GOLD is available at any Cabelas or Bass Pro shops.

It seems like nowadays, so many new BP substitutes are appearing AND disappearing from the market, it is so hard to keep up with them. Just a few years ago there was Cleanshot and BLACKMAG3 BP substitutes. They diappeared only after two years on the market, reasons unknown. It was kind of like the late 1880s, when so many different companies suddenly sprang up overnight in the US and Europe and advertising the most cleanest, meanest, and baddest brands of smokeless rifle powders, things that can take down elephants with a single shot, no matter how skilled the safari hunter is, Nitro Express sagas, and thousands upon thousands of other things. I have a few of these newspapers from the United States at the turn of the century, and they are really a great fun to read, all those concoctions, miracle cures, and smokeless cartridges.

Otherwise, stick to Holy Black, the real stuff.:)
 
I have a knight Bighorn and have tried most powders... Pyro RS or Goex FF are the only 2 it will group with...777 was a big let down for me crud ring every shot .
 
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Rachen's right about 777 being touchy about compression. I've used it with good results in a scoped Traditions Lightning .50 cal, getting groups identical to my scoped Winchester 70 30.06, but only after I learned to be gentle when seating the round (Powerbelts). You just want to kind of coax it into place with a little firmness.
 
Pioneer powder packs plenty of punch when shot from rifle length barrels, just make sure to keep the container closed & tightly sealed so it doesn't absorb air moisture by being left open.
It also has larger granules so buy the finer fffg granulation.

Shockley's Gold is made by APP, and they also bought out/took over Clean Shot Technologies.
 
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It's a Rolling Block .50.

The problem with the 777 was after two shots - I could no longer seat the round all the way down. There would be around an inch of gap somewhere.
 
Give it another try

What you have experienced is the infamous 777 crud ring. But before switching powders, try again using Winchester 777 primers. Here is a link to a discussion about them on THR's sister forum TFL. Report back and let us know, good or bad.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225537

777 has some unique characteristics that make it particularly suitable for hunting as opposed to general target shooting. That is why it has remained so popular among hunters despite it's problems. Here is a link to Knight's trophy page where you will see 777 listed more than any other powder.
http://www.knightrifles.com/TrophyRoom

This link shows a rifle that appears to have been built specifically for 777.
http://www.knightrifles.com/catalog.aspx?catid=de726h
 
Speaking of crud ring, I was thinking about that comment over and over again yesterday, and came to the conclusion that only incomplete combustion could have created a crud ring.

What kind of nipple are you using for your In-line?

There are many new replacement nipples offered by Thompson Center and CVA, called Flamethrowers, or something like that, compatible with adapters for number 11 percussion caps, 209 primers, or the winged musket caps. "Ring of fire", thats right. I think the manufacturers are aware of "crud rings" as well. The new nipples creates a full 360 degree circles of flame that fires the charge with little incomplete burning.

Heck, there is even a new rifle on the market called the Electra. OMG, I wonder how hard Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett would be laughing if they saw THAT. Electric ignition, lithium batteries, LOL:D
 
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