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Knive Grinding Question

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bikerdoc

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OK, my first atempt at grinding a knive ended in failure. Had it clamped down and had shaped the tip. When I unclamped it I found a crack at the opposite end near the tang that I could break of with my Hands. So much for that.

Went rummaging in the shed and found some old recipicating saw blades, one for metal and two for pruning tree limbs.

Are they acceptable?
 
I don't know, might as well try and see. Right now you just need practice grinding and doing it on soft steel or wood or whatever will give you that practice. You'll know when it's heat treated if it's any good.
 
Larry Harley had me grind a bunch of wood. It sure was cheap and it certainly taught control.
 
Doc,
Was that cracked blade the file you mentioned earlier? Files are little too hard as found. You need to temper them some or better yet, completely anneal them; as it makes working the metal much easier. You can harden and temper the blade when it's close to being finished.

As to the saw blades (or any mystery metal), short of sophisticated lab testing, there is no exact way of telling if the metal will make a good knife blade.
Some methods you can use for for a ball park estimate of a metal's suitability are:
!. Heat a piece to critical, quench and see if a file will cut it. Critical temp will also be a guess with mystery metals. Simple carbon steel becomes non-magnetic when it reaches critical. So you can check it with a magnet as you are heating it. The steel will usually be in the red/orange color range when this happens. If the light is right, you can see some "ghosts" (kind of moving shadows) in the steel when it reaches the correct temperature. BTW - the magnetic check must be done on ascending heat; steel will stay non-magnetic well past the critical point.

2. You could also try a spark test; put the material to a grinder and look at the spark trail. Suitable knife making steel's spark reminds me of that which a kid's sparklers give off.
Spark Testing

Regards,
Greg
 
I'm betting you left your steel full hard, and it cracked as a result, like another said above.

Before working a file, put it in the coals of a fire and leave it there till cool. It will then be fully annealed.

If it's not practical for you to be playin' with fire right now, instead put it in your oven for an hour or so, heated to it's highest temperature. This should turn the file a blue/purple temper colour. At this point, the steel will be much softer than originally, but still quite hard. Low 50's RC, basically tempered like a spring. This temper will not fail easily by brittle fracture, and will be somewhat easier to work than full file hard. Files use just about the hardest practical temper to do their job.

J
 
Go to any of knife supply houses. Order some 1095 it very cheap quenches in water or brine. Plus you never need a reason to call a knife supply house
 
Heck, show us the failed peice too!

This is the first blade I tried to forge. Never did have a plan in my head, just went banging away. It shattered when I attempted to quench 5160 in water....

Notice the cracks in the spine and near the cheezy lookin' guard.....

Not sure what I was doing hardening before having ground the blade, but the cart was firmly before the horse on this day...

failedhunter.jpg

J
 
You guys are great. Thanks for all the good advice. But I need more help cause Im slow. (wink and snicker) please. see my question below.

I'm betting you left your steel full hard, and it cracked as a result,

Yep I did and it did!

Heck, show us the failed peice too!

Nope, not gonna happen. Took too much good natured kidding from Cyndi as it is.
Besides,
As we speak a 4 inch piece of the file is in the burn barrel.

Plan is to make a very small fixed blade.

Now tomorrow when it is cooled,
I will grind it.

Please guys, then what? I want a good, hard temper.

Thanks
Doc
 
The simplest effective heat treat you'll do is as follows:

Get yourself a small magnet (metallic type, not the flexy rubber fridge mags), preferably on a metal extendable rod (one of the magnet pickup tools works for me, but you'll see what I mean).

With whatever heatsource you have, slowly bring the steel up to a dull cherry red. As it begins to turn red, test the steel with the magnet. When the steel turns non-magnetic, you're real close. Add just a hair more heat (say half a shade hotter, if ya know what I mean), and hold that temperature for a minute or 2. Long enough for the heat to thoroughly soak the blade.

Quench in oil. A quenching oil would be best, but I use used engine oil because I have it. Others use vegitable oil, olive oil, etc. When quenching, hold the knife by the tang, edge down, blade horizontal. Agitate in the oil up and down only, to prevent one side cooling faster than the other. Submerge completely to prevent excessive flaring. Once the smoke stops coming, finish the quench in cold water. Cool all the way to room temperature.

Don't drop the knife now, it'll shatter. Very hard, very brittle. Clean off the scale to bright metal. I use a wire wheel for this, Mokwepa reports success with a couple hours of vinegar soak.

Now, preheat your kitchen oven to about 450F. Place the knife in the middle rack, directly on the rack. Bake it for about an hour. When done, the blade should be a more-or-less uniform straw yellow.

http://www.anvilfire.com/index.php?...s.htm&titleName=Temper Colors : anvilfire.com

If you'd like to go a step further at this point, have a propane torch lit when you remove the blade. Hold the blade by the point, and play the tang in the flame until it's progressed through brown to blue. This will give a springier, tougher tang. You can do the same to the tip if you see yourself prying with this knife.

WRT the temper colours in that link I provided. Typically a razor will be tempered to a very pale yellow, a pen knife to straw yellow, a hard working utility knife to a deep yellow/orange, a fighting knife to bronze - purple, a watch spring or sword to almost full purple...

This won't get the absolute most from the steel, but will get'er done. It's the basic regime village smiths have used for a thousand years.

J
 
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