Knoxville TV station has analyzed TN carry permit list...News story to air tonight.

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tn-dave

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Thoughts..?? http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=50782

This commentary references anchor John Becker's story that will air on 10 News Nightbeat, tonight at 11 p.m.. We hope you will join us for the story. Stay tuned to WBIR.com for interactive features allowing you to see the profile for your neighborhood, as well.

--Jake Jost, Online and Investigative producer

In April, we requested the state of Tennessee's registry of handgun carry permit holders. The database containing that information is public record.

We had little idea at the time what an undertaking such a project would become.

At the time of our request, there were 177,881 valid permits in the state of Tennessee. The data include the names and addresses of each of the permit-holders. We set out to analyze the geographical and social trends among those who have registered to carry a handgun.

What we found

When we mapped the bulk of the addresses, the individual points covered the entire state, with the exception of state and national parks. In a general sense, folks are carrying guns everywhere in Tennessee.

Summarizing by area, we saw rural areas have a significantly higher number of permits per capita than urban areas. Perhaps most interesting was the clear contrast between Tennessee's major cities and the suburbs around them.

Knoxville, Chattanooga, Nashville, and Memphis all show a striking pattern of a low permit rate within the city limits and much higher permit rates in the suburbs around them. The permit rates in the suburban areas were also generally higher than those in rural areas.

With that clear visual trend, we wondered what social trends lay beneath the surface.

Using 2000 Census socioeconomic data, we ran a Pearson's correlation to match up the permit rate and other social and economic factors.(If you're interested in more in-depth information on this, e-mail me, and I can send you the tables.)

If permit-holders are anything like the people who live around them, they probably tend to be white, and middle-to-upper-middle-class. They would also generally tend to own their own homes, where they'd live with their families.

The next paragraph gets a bit more detailed for the stats enthusiasts.

More specifically, there was a moderate, positive correlation between the percentage of an area's population that was white and the number of permits, along with a moderate, negative correlation between the percentage of an area's population that was white. There was a moderate, positive correlation between the percentage of the population living in a family household and the number of permits. The correlations on income were negative or weak for incomes below $50,000. The correlation becomes postive and grows stronger until $100,000, where it trails off and becomes weak around $150,000. Correlations with education levels were, in short, all over the place. There was no clear pattern.

The data did not include gender information, but we did analyze names on an informal basis. Based on a permit-holder's first name, we determined whether that person was likely a man or a woman.

It appears men have more permits, by a margin of four to one. "James" is the most common name for a carrier. There are 8,500 permits bearing that first name.

There are 40 Ednas licensed to carry a gun.

How we analyzed the data

Using the addresses provided by permit holders, we geocoded them using GIS software. We ran the addresses through two address locators based on major road networks, then manually matched as many remaining addresses as possible. The end result was that approximately 160,000 permits were located on our map.

We then summarized by Census tract and manually computed correlations in a spreadsheet. The first names present in the database were deemed as male, female, or "too close to call" based on the Social Security Administration's list of popular names for boys and girls.

Disclaimers

Only 161,744 of the state's permit holders could be mapped, which comes out to about 91 percent of the state's valid permits at the time. The bulk of the addresses that could not be resolved were in rural areas. Additionally, the socioeconomic data used is from the year 2000; some demographic shifts have certainly taken place in seven years.

This analysis, while as thorough as possible, is primarily for news purposes. While we have made our best effort to study this phenomenon in a thoughtful way, it certainly will not be the final word in such a hot topic. I am not a professional cartographer or statistician; I am a full-time nerd.

Why we did it, final thoughts, and an appeal for openness

In recent years, more and more states have adopted a policy of issuing permits for residents to carry handguns for self-defense. It is an intriguing prospect to dissect, from a public policy standpoint.

Both gun-control advocates and gun-rights advocates are likely to state their goal as decreased gun violence. Gun control aims to alter the availability of firearms to those who would do ill with them; carrying a gun for self-defense aims to provide a powerful disincentive for those who would do ill with firearms.

Does it work? Frankly, it's hard to say. Objective proof is hard to come by. Even with 177,881 folks carrying guns in Tennessee, it is only 3 percent of the population. The percentage of people who are a victim of violent crime annually is also quite small. And our analysis suggests that those who obtain permits don't fit the socioeconomic profile of the bulk of crime victims.

We hear anecdotal interactions of would-be criminals and the people they've targeted who happen to be carrying guns, but the appearance is that the two don't interact with great frequency.

The academic studies we've read suggest that handgun carriage by permit is not a widespread enough phenomenon for its effects to be determined one way or another. If anyone has information on relevant studies, please link to them in the comments below.

Ultimately, this story is about fostering dialogue on a topic close to all of us: safety.

Finally, an appeal for openness. This story was possible only through Tennessee's open records laws. There has been talk in recent years of the legislature closing the record on handgun carry permits.

A closed record would make analysis such as this impossible. An intelligent debate over policy is unlikely without good information. Without strong public records laws, we can't provide you with good information
.

hope this is the right place/forum for this discussion
 
So, middle class, middle aged white males that live in suburbs are the most likely to have carry permits. Yawn. Not like it's anything we didn't know before.
 
Makes one realize that there is virtually no privacy left in this world. Kinda scary when you think about it long.. In many large metro areas now you can go on-line to a mapping and survery site and for a fee pull up real time pictures of the house next door along with your neighbors wife in the pool.

How long before the wrong people get open access data so they know where to go to steal guns, or where the upper middle class lives for other nefarious business?
 
Sound like a fairly amateur and inconclusive analysis. I'd like for John Lott to critique there methods.

Does it work? Frankly, it's hard to say. Objective proof is hard to come by. *** And our analysis suggests that those who obtain permits don't fit the socioeconomic profile of the bulk of crime victims.
So... are they say that CCW does work? It soulnds like they'd like to say "those who carry don't need to."
Ultimately, this story is about fostering dialogue on a topic close to all of us: safety.
Really? How so? Again, it sounds like they'd like to say that CCW is dangerous. Otherwise, what is the safety issue to discuss?

A closed record would make analysis such as this impossible.
You mean one that is useless, such as this?
An intelligent debate over policy is unlikely without good information.
What is there to debate? What is the secret problem you keep alluding to?
Without strong public records laws, we can't provide you with good information.
Even with full access to these records, you admit that you did not provide us with any "good information."
 
It's an interesting piece and I'm happy to see that they're not giving out names and/or addresses like the anti scum at the Tennessean newspaper.

Being a resident of Tennessee and somewhat involved in firearms training, I'm not surprised by the results of their analysis. Middle class folks in the 'berbs are the most likely ones to pay for the permit and the training to get it. Simple socioeconomics. More men than women? Not surprising. Few urban and somewhat fewer rural residents than the 'berbs. Not surprising either.

Nice to see that someone has collected this data and looked at it. It also puts politician on notice that permit holders are mostly middle class families (the folks that are most likely to vote).
 
Does it work? Frankly, it's easy to say. Objective proof is simple to come by. *** Our analysis of the two shooting in Miami in the prior two days suggest that those who obtain permits have a tendency to kill their attackers. Those attackers have a tendency never to commit a crime again.

Fixed!
 
good to see that since i own a gun, i probably will not need it!

In recent years, more and more states have adopted a policy of issuing permits for residents to carry handguns for self-defense.

it's interesting how this can be read two ways. one is that states see the need for people to carry. the other is that states want to control who carries.

i thought it was reasonable information without detailing individuals.
 
being a resident, i dont like the idea of singling out CCW's. it seems like we (CCW's) have all been made at once.
 
It would be good to have the ability to do similar studies on journalists and others in the media. Who are these people? Unfortunately there are no public records of their names and addresses. That glaring lack should be remedied.
 
What they have failed to consider is the: 1) People who own handguns, but do not carry outside of their homes, 2) The people who own firearms that are used for sporting purposes primarily, but also relied upon for home security, and 3) Those who may have a long gun that is used solely for home security. All these should be considered if they are, in fact, attempting to research the effect of gun ownership on crime. The only conculsion they have reached so far is a definite maybe!:neener:
 
A few years ago an editorialist in the local paper wanted the
names and addresses of TN handgun carry permit holders
publisized so people could be warned who was carrying guns.

That lead to an exchange between me and the editorialist.
I went to the Tennessee Department of Safety (TDOS) and
the the Texas Department of Public Safety (TDPS) for info
and data to refute some of the points raised in the editorial.

I am glad that WBIR Knoxville has avoided the "Publicise the
Names and Addresses of Permit Holders in the name of Public
Safety" bandwagon drove into the ground by too many newspapers.

Yeah, people need to know who lives next door to them and
passed TBI and FBI background checks and have not been arrested
since passing the BG checks and getting a permit. Knowing that
will really enhance public safety.

BUT it would be interesting to note the differences between what
was written and what got aired. Can someone get a transcript of
the broadcast? The article sounds too balanced to be TV news.
 
This makes me even happier that Kentucky prohibits the release of CCDW info. Such meaningless drivel. If this is what they're doing for sweeps, they're in trouble.
 
I wonder what the map would look like if they were to track KNOWN FELONS and where they reside and what their socioeconomic makeup was and then track the repeat offenders that committed their second crime with a gun.
 
I suspect that, while the information contained in this commentary is non-news for us gunnies, it WILL be news to the gun-fearful: When you live in the 'burbs,' you may well be surprised to learn that the greatest concentration of permit holders is in your area--and that one in thirty people have a permit.

Combine that with the non-event of permit holders' criminality, and there will be probably be a bit more attitudinal change--something on the order of "well, maybe they aren't so dangerous after all."

I think it's an excellent report for the evening news, given the target market.

Jim H.
 
That sounds like a useful tool, Polishrifleman...and thats why it will probably never happen.
 
I don't know how TN is about carrying in a vehicle, but if anything like Texas there is also going to be a lot of people that carry while traveling and have a firearm close at hand not on the CCW list.

This qoute is interesting:
And our analysis suggests that those who obtain permits don't fit the socioeconomic profile of the bulk of crime victims
So they are saying that most crime victims fall below the income bracket of most CCW holders. The irony is a large amount of gun control is aimed at disarming the lower income citizens as they are the most likely to commit crimes (and obviously be victimed by those in thier area.)
So this news article is itself saying that junk gun laws, saturday night special laws, or in otherwords minimum purchase price laws disarm the people most likely to have use for a defensive firearm.

Most CCW holders are white, middle class family men? You mean they are what most of America is? So informative. :rolleyes:
 
Henry Bowman said;
So... are they say that CCW does work? It sounds like they'd like to say "those who carry don't need to."

And they would be right. Violent crime of the kind that a person would most likely carry a gun to protect themselves from is mostly among a certain socio-economic group. If you don't hang around with people who live a criminal lifestyle or go to the places they hang out, the chance of needing any type of weapon to defend yourself is very, very low.

The way to turn this around is to get them to do a story on why the people who would most benefit from having a CCW permit don't have them. Perhaps the station could buy a bunch of police surplus Model 10 S&W revolvers and sponsor free classes for inner city residents. :evil:

Obviously the CCW program is a failure because those people who would most benefit from having one don't. The typical big government fix is to reach out to those people so they do benefit....:neener:

Jeff
 
I wonder what the map would look like if they were to track KNOWN FELONS and where they reside and what their socioeconomic makeup was and then track the repeat offenders that committed their second crime with a gun.

Not sure exactly what your point is, but I will take a crack.

Much more likely to be non-white, non-middle class, and not to live in the suburbs. Probably as likely to be male as CCW holders (if not more so).

Not sure about the city/rural distribution. Ten years ago, I would have said that the city was much more dangerous. Friends who live in rural areas tell me that crysal meth is dramatically changing the countryside for the worse.

I think that the article was interesting - I had never realized that the people most likely to need a CCW permit are the least likely to have it.

Mike
 
Zoogster""I don't know how TN is about carrying in a vehicle,""

Tennessee is not like Texas: gun transported in vehicle must be in
case in trunk, with ammo in container seperate from case (unless
it is a handgun carried by a TN Handgun Carry Permit holder or by someone holding an out of state carry license or permit recognised by the state
of Tennessee) last time I checked state law.

Carrying a gun for offense or carrying a gun for defense
outside the home without a permit
is an offense of "going armed."
Courts have ruled that the TN constitution protects an absolute right
to have a gun for protection on your own property, but the state
reserves the authority to regulate the wearing of arms in public with
a view to prevent crime as long as such regulation does not restrict
the lawful uses of firearms.
 
58 Comments in the "talkback" section already. Any HighRoaders stopped by and posted...?? Looks like the author of the article was posting too.


I read the article closely to see what angle the writer was taking and I think he isn't really taking an angle or doesn't seem to have an agenda.

I look forward to seeing the story and seeing how it is presented. WBIR is pretty "high road" in my opinion. They also post videos on their website of a lot of their stories the next day.

I was shocked to realize the permit list is public record. I did not know that.
 
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