Knoxx SpecOps on an 870- Shells won't feed?

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marklbucla

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I just put on a Spec Ops and shot it for the first time today, and I can say that it really lives up to the hype. (It's still ugly though...:uhoh: )

Anyway, on a full magazine (choate +3 extension) after shooting the chambered shell, the first shell won't load onto the carrier. It has to be racked again to load. Same deal with the second shell in the magazine. (I know I'm not short stroking it.) The rest of the shells are fine.

I cleaned the follower before this trip and the magazine was cleaned before shooting 50 shells a week ago, so it should still be clean enough. Everything worked fine last week.

So what's the deal?
 
I switched followers to the Choate one that comes with their extension kit. Problems persist.

I've found that if I shoot and then cycle the action, it seems to be okay. If I pull back on the stock as I'm recoiling, new shells don't get ejected from the magazine onto the carrier like they ought to. It's not a big deal since I don't compete, but I'm slower with the spec ops than I am with a regular stock with the full recoil.

Does this sound like a spring issue, a follower issue, or a magazine tube issue?

Anyone else noticed the same thing?
 
Been thinking about this since you first posted it. Yeah, I'm slow- brain damage will do that to ya. But I do the best I can...

This may sound off the wall (may BE off the wall too), but it could be that the magazine spring is not strong enough to keep the combined weight of the shells in your fully loaded magazine pushed back against the shell stops when the gun moves backward in recoil. In other words, the problem may be inertial- the shells in the magazine want to stay where they are- and have the combined weight to do so- as the gun recoils back around them, until enough shells are removed from the magazine to drop the total weight to the point the magazine spring can keep the shells forced back in the magazine tube. We're not talking MUCH movement of the entire ammo load in the magazine here, just a fraction of an inch would do it.

I'd try a stronger magazine spring first, and I would also be talking to the manufacturer of the stock about the situation to see what they say.

Good luck with it,

lpl/nc
 
Lee Lapin said:
<SNIP> In other words, the problem may be inertial- the shells in the magazine want to stay where they are- and have the combined weight to do so- as the gun recoils back around them, until enough shells are removed from the magazine to drop the total weight to the point the magazine spring can keep the shells forced back in the magazine tube. We're not talking MUCH movement of the entire ammo load in the magazine here, just a fraction of an inch would do it.

I'd try a stronger magazine spring first, and I would also be talking to the manufacturer of the stock about the situation to see what they say.

Good luck with it,

lpl/nc

While this is the first time I've heard of this problem, Lee's answer is exactly the same as the one that came to me as I read your post. The stock doesn't do anything directly to affect your feeding system. The only answer can be inertia. The solution is a heavier magazine spring. Try the heavier spring and let us (me) know if the problem persists.

Thanks Lee.

CaCrusin :cool:
 
My Choate worked fine for the first couple hundred rounds, but then the follower started hanging up on the last shot. I doubted it was the spring as the Choate replacement spring is a real PITA to put back in.

I put the gray Remington follower back in, and no problems in the 100 rounds since I did that. I am thinking of a Wilson or Vang follower, but for now the Remington works.

I was also disappointed with the sling mount mag ex brace, it was junk. It didn't even last my last trip to the range.

Any suggestions for a replacement?
 
Wolff should do fine, I have also been happy with Wilson's mag spring and follower combo Hope that fixes it,

lpl/nc

ps- You're welcome, CC- just trying to be helpful, in my slow-on-the-uptake way.
 
Update:

Wilson Combat Follower replaced the Original Follower.
Wolff Extra Power Magazine Spring replaced the Choate.

I replaced the Knoxx with my regular Hogue Short grip and gave the gun a good, thorough cleaning. The problems persisted! It's basically the 2nd and 4th in the tube that aren't coming out properly now. This is when I'm using the "Push/Pull" technique, or whatever it's called. If I slow down and shoot, then shuck, shoot, then shuck, it's fine. I notice that the shells aren't coming fully back and hitting the piece at the end of the mag tube. I'd think it's a problem there where where the tube meets the carrier, but if I shoot with only 4 in the tube, it runs perfectly.

Any Ideas?
 
but if I shoot with only 4 in the tube, it runs perfectly.

Sounds like you should take another look at the dimple removal and the transition area between the mag tube and the extension.
 
I did it with a dremel and it's real smooth. The followers go in and out without a problem. It's actually better now than it was before and it worked fine.
 
One more thing to look at pops into my head and that's the shell stop itself. It may be on the edge of not releasing due to wear, adjustment, and/or the amount of tension being applied by the shells in the tube, as well as the slight variations in the head size from one lot of shells or brand from another.

When you rack the slide back the shell stop should move far enough to release the head of the shell from the magazine - your problem seems a bit intermitant which could mean the stop is right on the edge of proper function. When you rack the slide back and a shell doesn't release, carefully turn the gun over and look to see if the head of the shell in the magazine is still being held by the shell stop, and resting on it. If so, the stop may need to be replaced or adjusted.
 
Odd.

I really figured the new mag spring would have fixed it. Swapping back to a standard style stock was a good diagnostic move on your part.

Trying different brands/kinds of ammo might help, it could be a dimensional problem with one particular brand/lot of ammo. But if it does it with everything you run through it, then there is almost certainly a problem with the gun.

I know you said you gave it a good cleaning. But just to be sure, and to humor an old phart, please try this:

Field strip the gun (that is, take off barrel, pull the action bar assy/bolt and slide out, remove trigger plate assy, mag spring and follower) and really wash out the recesses behind the shell stops on both sides of the receiver with whatever kind of spraycan goop you have handy- WD-40, gun scrubber or plastic safe brake cleaner, then promptly blow the recess out with compressed air (use 'canned air' as for computers, with the straw, if you don't have access to a compressor). Pay particular attention to the left side shell stop recess, the one on the other side of the receiver from the ejection port.

Don't try using a brush, and don't get heavy handed with the shell stops when the trigger plate assy is out of the gun. Just spray and blow it out as much as possible as best you can, that will be enough to answer the question of whether there's enough crun in the way to interfere with the shell stops. Don't remove the shell stops, they are staked in and need to stay staked, but a spray'n'wash shouldn't dislodge them and should get rid of anything behind them. If you didn't take precautions to keep abrasive/metal chips/filings/etc. from going down the magazine tube while you were Dremeling out the dimples, a lot of crud could have wound up in the recesses behind the shell stops. That's why I suggest that people pull a rag tied with a string partway through the mag tube from the receiver when doing this operation, then pull the string all the way out the front of the mag tube when they are done, to block the tube then sweep out the trash.

If that doesn't fix it I don't know what's up with this one, could be wear or damage on the action bar assembly, likely the left side. If you have a spare or another gun you can swap parts with, try swappng out the action bar assy. If you don't have another action bar assy you can get hands on and don't know anyone who does have one handy you can use, then PM me and we'll see what we can do.

If that's not it, then it sounds like it could be narrowing down to the shell stops themselves, perhaps most likely the left one. But first try the ammo swap, then cleaning the shell stop recesses, then the action bar assy swap, and let's see what happens. One step at the time...

lpl/nc
 
I was using the Federal Field and Range (red box).

What's the best next step then in terms of ammo?
=======================================

Doesn't really matter too much what you try as long as it's something the gun is properly chambered for and it's different from the Federals you were using. Try picking up a box of Remington cheap target loads, or Fiocchis or whatever different from the Federal you run across (I'd be leery of Winchester, but if it's all you can find cheap try them too). If you only have one gun chambered for a given round, it's usually good idea to only buy small quantities (like one box) of a given load of ammo till you see if the gun likes it OK.

If you have some buckshot or slugs on hand, try them too (if you don't have some, you NEED some- you need to know what the gun will run with and will pattern best). Anything different from what the gun was hiccuping with, or a couple of different things (in case Murphy really has a case of the butt with you), should tell you if it's a gun problem or an ammo problem.

Just keep plugging away at this thing, you'll get it worked out eventually. The aim is to do it as simply and inexpensively as possible, one step at the time, ruling out one potential problem after another till it works OK.

lpl/nc
 
Ok, one thing I've always forgotten to do was clean out the Magazine Extension! I have no idea how it happened, but it was filthy! I didn't think the Magazine tube could get that dirty, much less the extension, but I guess running about 50 shells a week for the past 7 months would do it.

The rest of the gun was still clean, and I hit the receiver with the Gun scrubber as suggested. It's really not any more clean this time around than it was before.

I have a pretty good feeling that he'll be good as new next time I take him out! I'll still try out different ammo too just to see.
 
Ok, it's been awhile, but the problem's fixed.

It was the Choate Mag extension itself. Using a Remington extension solved the problem. Don't know what the difference was, but using the different tube fixed it.
 
Glad you hung with it till you got it worked out. Hope it never hiccups on you again...

lpl/nc
 
marklbucla, thanks for coming back and posting a post script to your problem. It has always been frustrating for a newbie like me to read about a problem in a forum but never get a chance to find out what the final "cure" was. Cheers! :)
 
Funny thing how after market parts can cause such problems, and even give the impression that one AMP was the cause of a problem that was by another. Obviously, there should have been no relation between the the Knoxx stock and not feeding on a pump shotgun.

Extension tubes can be fickle.
 
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