Korean War infrared scope question....

[bainter1212]

In the course of my reading I realized there is a rifle we may be overlooking - the Pattern 14.

The P14 was used by the British and Aussies through WWII as a sniper rifle. It is concievable that one made it's way to Korea and was fitted with an IR device.

Just a thought.....

Here is some good info on the P14 sniper (officially the No.3 mk 1* )

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?166290-P14-Enfield-as-Sniper-Rifle-in-WWI-and-WWII

 

[Martin Pegler]

Korean War infra-red scopes

Hello all.
At Gary Yee's request I've broken my usual rule of non-involvement with forums as he seems to think I can shed some specific light on this question. Optimistic as ever ! Well, for what it's worth, in all of my book research and talking to veterans, I have never come across reference to the use or existence of a British, or even Commonwealth rifle equipped with any form of infra-red optical device at this period. One specific point - the mention of a bipod - makes me believe that whatever he used was not British. The UK never adopted a bipod until the introduction of the L96 rifle - save the one fitted to the Bren gun.
As former curator of the Royal Armouries/ Pattern Room collection I obviously had access to all extant, and prototype arms used or trialled by the British and most other world armies, and there was nothing I can recollect that fits the account given. [An M14/XM21 would do, but it was seven years too late for Korea, and semi-auto. ] However, he clearly DID shoot something and I suspect the most likely candidate could have been a one-off rifle set up by unit armourers. Any bolt-action rifle could have been pressed into service, a US Sniperscope 'liberated' and a bipod made or modified [Bren bipods were plentiful]. One problem is that the range of these early IR scopes was very limited, around 130-150 yards, hence its adoption with the M1 Carbine, so the ranges he shot at must have been close. However, unless someone out there knows different I suspect exactly what he used will remain a puzzle.
All the best for 2014,
Martin Pegler, [Ex-curator and occasional author.]

 

[bainter1212]

Well Martin, I thank you for chiming in and will put this topic to rest for now, considering how multiple experts have contributed. Pending further info, looks like the mystery continues.

My grandfather says he took a ton of pictures in Korea but they were (allegedly) stolen by his brother along with a bunch of "old Confederate money" (this story just makes me chuckle).

Oh well, thanks for chiming in guys.

 

[cpt-t]

bainter1212: You know You have something very speical. The relationship You have with Your Granddad is something to be treasured. Spend all the time You can with Him,and encurage Him to tell You all His storys. It appears that this is a part of his life that He has kept just for Himself. And now He is encluding You into that part of his life. You must be very special to Him, enjoy His Storys and encurage Him to tell You all of them He is comfortable with shareing. You are experincing, a for real treasure enjoy it. Because sadly Your conversations with You Granddad will not last forever. Remember everything he shares with You, for He is letting You enter the most private and most guarded part of His Life. I envy You. I would be Honored to hear any of Your Granddads Stories You would be willing to share. Good Luck To You:
ken

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Units in the field tend to improvise as necessary. It is not beyond imagining that an armorer (or armourer) in the field would modify some one-off weapon for a local need.

My father served in the US Army 6th Division in New Guinea and the Philipines and mostly used the BAR. When in a fixed position he kept all the m1918A2 light machinegun add-ons--bipod, handle, etc but on foot patrol he stripped it down to 16 lbs, bare automatic rifle on a sling.

The idea I agree with is that, as Martin Pegler posted, it was not an as-issued item but could have been a field expedient lash-up.

(On the other hand I am tempted to think that an Aussie or Canadian used to shooting a man's rifle (Enfield) in a man's caliber (.303 Brit) might not want to admit using a .30 carbine M3 . )

 

[4v50 Gary]

BTW, the Carlisle Military History Institute has some online information about doing oral history. Suggest you peruse it and collect your GF's info NOW.

 

[patsygonzalez]

maybe it's too highly confidential so you can't search it on Google..

ray netticasino

 

[Radagast]

Unlikely. That is 50 year old technology, a generation behind the stuff that is sold as kids toys these days.

 

[cpt-t]

Don`t quoat me on this but some where in an old US ARMY field manual or teck manual. They had a picture of a M1 Carbine with the infar-red system mounted on it and they called it a ((( M4 CARBINE ))). This set up was used in WW11 some of the Old Timers that I had a chance to talk with, said they used this system and said it worked very well. But they also said that this system was very fragile and hard to keep it working. But that it was used in the islands campaines and they said that it produced a high body count.
ken