Krag-Jorgensen Rifle?

[Acera]

Under powered certainly. But could you please provide reference for the claim of slow to load? The Krag regularly won speed shooting competitions in Norway that required multiple reloads against stripper clip fed rifles.

Read the criticisms of the rifle flowing the battle I referenced. The stripper clip fed Mausers provided a higher rate of fire. The rifles days were numbered after that. Contributed to it being one of the shortest serving US service rifles.


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[Vern Humphrey]

If you like old guns, I think they are pretty classy and interesting rifles. Id check the bolt carefully, I recall that one of the loading manuals mentioned (NRA?) that a some of the bolts they checked had cracks by the locking lug.

Soak the bolt in penetrating oil, drain it and put it in the oven at about 250 degrees. If there is a crack, you will be able to see it as the penetrating oil comes oozing out.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

It used to be common to lap the lug so that the emergency lug made contact. Probably still a good idea if you plan to shoot it much.

Another option is to load it with mild cast bullets - easier on old steel - plus your shoulder will thank you - that steel butt plate isn't very comfortable.

Do NOT lap the lug!

When you do that, you increase headspace, and you're just asking for a ruptured cartridge case -- with possibly disasterous results. If you DO lap the lug, you'll have to pull the barrel, rethread it, and reinstall it to get proper headspace. This involves taking a bit of metal off the breech face, and rechambering.

 

[RPRNY]

You must be mistaken. There is nothing slow about loading the Krag and, as I note, for many years, the Krag was the rifle of choice in Norwegian stangskyting. It was Roosevelt who successfully argued for its replacement and he wanted the 98 Mauser in 7x57, which he was only partially successful with. But that was entirely about cartridge velocity. Nowhere have I read criticism about speed of loading. The Army's approach of single loading and keeping the magazine for "emergency" may have been absurd, but that was the Army, not the rifle.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Let me point out that many troops in the Spanish American War were armed with M1873 Trapdoor Springfield single shot blackpowder rifle. Naturally, these troops were impressed with the M1894 Mausers the Spanish used -- and that is the basis for much of the supposed superiority of the Mauser.

 

[Merle1]

Alright, so I am going to have to go check it out again.

Once I get the 30-40 brass its just a regular 30 cal bullet right? same as a 308?

I will admit I am rather a novice when it comes to reloading.

Thanks all!

Yes, it is a regular .308; but they seem to prefer heavier bullets, up to 220 grain.
Usually it is a good idea to slug the bore, as there is a fair amount of variation.
Cast bullets can be made, or bought, to the required diameter.

 

[Merle1]

Do NOT lap the lug!

When you do that, you increase headspace, and you're just asking for a ruptured cartridge case -- with possibly disasterous results. If you DO lap the lug, you'll have to pull the barrel, rethread it, and reinstall it to get proper headspace. This involves taking a bit of metal off the breech face, and rechambering.

Valid point - I forgot that this was usually done when re barrelling.

 

[Dog Soldier]

As pointed out. If speed loading was such a concern? Why did the Krags have a magazine cut offs ?

 

[Nature Boy]

Atticus Finch approves

 

[tark]

Some Krags were apparently turned out where BOTH lugs made contact evenly. I have one!! With the gun cocked, bolt closed, I cannot get a .001" feeler gauge to go between the safety lug and the receiver. Close examination reveals that the lug has worn the blue off the receiver where it makes contact. Am I just lucky, or did the Army (Or someone else ) do this? My gun is a late 1898 and shows no signs of ever having been modified.

 

[Acera]

As pointed out. If speed loading was such a concern? Why did the Krags have a magazine cut offs ?

It was you who mentioned they added a stripper clip attachment dog. Do you understand what the magazine cut off was used for? Stripper clips and magazine cut offs relate to two different modes of fire. The M1903 has a magazine cut off also. You got to look at how they viewed the rifle at that time, and especially after the battles of that war. They felt it slow to load compared to the opposition. They wanted to get faster and added the Parkhurst stripper clip adapter. Lot easier and faster to load from a stripper clip than from loose rounds in your belt pouch. I think the clip system worked out pretty well when you consider it was the main means of charging military bolt action rifles for the next two world wars. Even the M-14 and SKS had methods to use stripper clips. The system the Krag used died out, like most all inferior designs. Not saying that some people can't load it fast, the Army did not see it as the best method.


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[Dog Soldier]

It was you mention they added a stripper clip attachment dog. Do you understand what the magazine cut off was used for? Stripper clips and magazine cut offs relate to two different modes of fire. The M1903 has a magazine cut off also. You got to look at how they viewed the rifle at that time, and especially after the battles of that war. They felt it slow to load compared to the opposition. They wanted to get faster and added the Parkhurst stripper clip adapter. Lot easier and faster to load from a stripper clip than from loose rounds in your belt pouch. I think the clip system worked out pretty well when you consider it was the main means of charging military bolt action rifles for the next two world wars. Even the M-14 and SKS had methods to use stripper clips. The system the Krag used died out, like most all inferior designs. Not saying that some people can't load it fast, the Army did not see it as the best method.


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Yes, I understand Military rifles and Muskets. Thanks for your charity in trying to helping me.

 

[Acera]

Yes, I understand Military rifles and Muskets. Thanks for your charity in trying to helping me.

Glad I could help.

 

[jrmiddleton425]

Under powered certainly. But could you please provide reference for the claim of slow to load? The Krag regularly won speed shooting competitions in Norway that required multiple reloads against stripper clip fed rifles.

This video to about the 1:25 mark shows the use of speed loaders in a Norwegian Krag.

 

[RPRNY]

This video to about the 1:25 mark shows the use of speed loaders in a Norwegian Krag.

Cool. Thanks for digging that vid up. I was trying to find one I've seen of a Krag winning a stangskyting competition against a Swedish Mauser, K98, and Lee Enfield. As I recall, the chap used the speed loader device shown in this vid.

 

[tark]

WOW. That is slick as greased lightning. The most interesting speed loader I've seen yet. Wonder If one like it could be made for our Krags?? Thanks for sharing.

 

[Merle1]

WOW. That is slick as greased lightning. The most interesting speed loader I've seen yet. Wonder If one like it could be made for our Krags?? Thanks for sharing.

I have seen pics of several different versions used by competition shooters in the US, so it has already been done.

 

[RPRNY]

And info on chargers:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...competition-speedloader#/topics/370056?page=1

 

[Malamute]

And info on chargers:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...competition-speedloader#/topics/370056?page=1

OK, THAT video was officially amazing. Was interesting seeing how they (apparently) polished all the working surfaces and greased them to make the bolt so smooth and fast. Yes, its long, and they are speaking Norwegianese, but it was quite good.

The links to the chargers makers seemed to be dead in the links on the gunboards link. Not that I need a Krag charger, but was interested in seeing more details about them.

 

[fpgt72]

I have two...one carbine, one rifle that got sportered in the 1950's, that the FIL had.

Ammo is out there it is just not at walmart....take your time and find it. This is not something you are going to run 100 rounds in per week....at least I don't.

The round is no slouch, Taking the bolt apart is a bit of a pain with having to screw with that extractor...but past that no big deal. It is an old rifle and I really feel....this is not a good idea taking the bolt out and apart...a bit scary on a 116 year old gun.....but I guess I am shooting the thing so eh.

I actually was playing with it about a week or so ago....trying to get rim lock.....I was told the Krag has some way to keep this from happening...and sure enough I could not make it happen. I also never really had a problem loading it....yea a stripper clip is faster, and yes I was not being shot at....but I don't think it is the huge deal it was made out to be. I don't think the 30-40 is too far off a 3006. I really think it was more politics....we wanted a home grown rifle....such as it was.

If it is in good shape I would say go for it....around $1000-$1200 seems to be the going price for pretty nice examples around here.

Here is photos of my two...the carbine and the sporter.

 

[Speedo66]

Be nice to find a Norwegian version chambered in 6.5x55, great all around cartridge for target shooting and hunting. The Norwegians collaborated with Sweden in the development of the cartridge before they even had a rifle to shoot it in.

The Swedes, of course, went to Mauser for their rifles with that cartridge. Still considered one of the best rifle/cartridge combinations.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Some Krags were apparently turned out where BOTH lugs made contact evenly. I have one!! With the gun cocked, bolt closed, I cannot get a .001" feeler gauge to go between the safety lug and the receiver. Close examination reveals that the lug has worn the blue off the receiver where it makes contact. Am I just lucky, or did the Army (Or someone else ) do this? My gun is a late 1898 and shows no signs of ever having been modified.

American Krags never had safety lugs that would bear. Norwegian Krags did. I would say if your safety lug bears, your gun has been altered.

 

[tark]

I would say if your safety lug bears, your gun has been altered.

No evidence of that, Vern. The only way that that could have happened is to lap the locking lug until the safety lug, AKA guide rib, bears against the receiver. Then the barrel must be set back or the gun rebarreled to correct the headspace. No evidence of any of that. The barrel is original and the measurements on the bolt locking lug, compared to a second bolt, are identical. that bolt was never lapped, it came from the factory that way. I have a friend in California that is a member of the Krag Collectors Assn. He also had a Krag the same way, a 96. Sometimes it happened.

 

[Malamute]

Be nice to find a Norwegian version chambered in 6.5x55, great all around cartridge for target shooting and hunting...

Ive only seen one or two of the 6.5 guns, one was for sale at the Indy 1500 show a few years ago, I wish Id been smart enough to buy it.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I probably shouldn't stick my nose in here, but as an old die maker, I believe that lapping is more of a polishing operation than a grinding operation. You would have to lap quite a long time to remove .001" which would NOT have a big effect on headspace. If you are removing enough metal to alter the fit of the cartridge in the chamber you are not doing something correctly. Not trying to start a urination, just wishing to have properly defined terms.......