Larry Craig and Dianne Feinstein strike deal on S 397

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hkOrion... I know what you mean. Has that idiot Feinstein asked herself, "How many people have been killed with these weapons, if they're so 'ultra deadly'?"
We will never know. It is a known fact of congressional physics that the corpse is vaporized when hit with a .50 BGM from 2 miles away. You want proof? How many people just disappear in this country? How many have disappeared since the uber-deadly gun went for sale?

You got is all wrong. The good senator from Cali is just protecting us from evil gunslingers <cough, cough and creating the framework into which new calibers and definitions can be inserted which will result in future bans without the messiness of a congressional vote>

All seriousness aside. You get a regulation in place constructed around a centerfire cartridge or muzzle energy you then have the framework to used by a subsequent administration.
 
A BILL
To regulate .50 caliber sniper weapons designed for the taking of human life and the destruction of materiel, including armored vehicles and components of the Nation's critical infrastructure.


If the legislation is predicated on a LIE, or on FALSEHOOD, is it invalidated?

This preamble claims that the .50 caliber sniper weapons are DESIGNED for the DESTRUCTION OF THE NATION'S CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

Is that so? Let's ask Mr. Barrett. :rolleyes:

-Jeffrey
 
Making ANY deal with Sen Fine-Swine is a worse deal the Eve made with The Serpent in the Garden of Eden.

You'll just get stabbed in the back & bit on the butt at least twice as fast as the other deal I mentioned. . .
 
Just a few points to make...

First, we worked hard in 2004 and got 5 clearly pro-gun Senators elected where there used to be anti-gun Senators. notice how big of a difference it has made in what the antis are willing to even attempt?

Second, all five of those Senators are Republicans. Coincidence?

Third, I've heard substantial complaining about why the Republicans haven't automatically removed all gun laws within days of Congress starting. As long as any legislation can be filibustered in the Senate, we need 60 votes to pass anything remotely controversial. We currently have 54-55 votes that are usually pro-gun and maybe 49 votes that are reliably pro-gun.

This means as long as we lack the votes we will still have to make some compromises with people who oppose our goals just so we can get a vote on the bills we wish to pass. That is the reality of the Senate. If you feel better blaming the Republicans for it, then by all means go ahead; but make sure you are letting your Senators of either party know what compromises you consider unacceptable - because you might not like the ones they make if you do not.
 
Bart Roberts is right, and Ohio is as much to blame as any state. Sen. DeWine is an anti gun RINO. Sen. Voinovich is not openly anti, but is a spinless RINO who crys over Bolton going to the UN.

In yesterday's Cincinnati Post, there was a front page article about which Democrat would run against DeWine next year. We need to make it clear that DeWine has to first win the Republican primary. Recently, his son ran in the primary for the Congressional seat vacated by Rob Portman in a very conservative district. He had his daddy's money and name. Yard signs were everywhere. Up until a few days before the election, it was simply assumed that he would win. He had his butt handed to him on a platter and came in a distant third!
 
The legitimate sporting purposes phrase is a big threat. But that being said what part of long range target shooting isn't legitimate?

Anyways the militia clause that they love so much to try and make the second amendment a collective right, means that it applies military weapons. What kind of militia is restricted to legitimate sporting weapons.

Maybe you could modify a remington 7600 or a BAR - the new ones not the m1919 to feed off a belt... hey its my deer rifle... okay bad idea it was for the sake of humor anywas...

Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession... James Madison Federalist no. 46
 
Think if the Republicans our the friends of gun owners wouldn't be any amendments. See no difference in the Democrats and Republicans anymore. All the same
 
ultra deadly sniper weapons
oooooooooooooooooo they are ULTRA deadly!

we should just be glad she didnt call them supercalifragilistichumptydumptysuperduperpooperscoopermorepowerfulthansupermanspidermantheincrediblehulkandwolverineputtogether deadly.
 
It sounds like Larry Craig has already capitulated and agreed to support Feinstein's amendment.

I suspect that the final bill will be immunity for gun companies, and a ban on private transfers of 50 BMG weapons.

There is no reason for Republicans to budge an inch on this issue. They already have a majority and could pass the immunity bill with no amendments, if they wanted to pass it.
 
Unless Republicans go to the mat on this, it will prove they’re no different than Democrats when it comes to RKBA. The dreaded .50 represents no more of a ‘threat’ than the .338 Lapua or the .308 Win for that matter. Awhile back some Democrat (Schumer I think) made some statements regarding the .50’s ability to ‘pierce a limousine at over a mile’, disclosing his true fears.

This is incrementalism again. Anti gunners nibbling. If they can start at the top of the food chain with the .50, they can set precedent and move on down to other ‘high power rifles’ that have the same potential. It’s BS and I expect the Republicans to call it that.
 
There is no reason for Republicans to budge an inch on this issue. They already have a majority and could pass the immunity bill with no amendments, if they wanted to pass it.

Lone Gunman, how do you propose Republicans pass a cloture vote in the Senate (60 votes) without budging an inch on this issue or without allowing amendments?
 
Luchtaine

What kind of militia is restricted to legitimate sporting weapons.

The irony is that the 1939 U.S. v. Miller decision http://www.rkba.org/research/miller/Miller.html that the antis so love to cite as precedent for limiting firearms in the hands of the public, had Miller losing because the gun in question (a saw-off shotgun) had no legitimate use in the militia (because there was no judicial notice of such use, because Miller had no lawyer arguing for him before the Court). Putting aside the fact that the Army made extensive use of sawed-off shotguns as "trenchbrooms" in WW1 (only 21 years before), the exact opposite result should occur with any semi-auto version of a military weapon (and, for that matter, especially with the full-auto versions, since they are ideally suited for militia use). The .50 BMG cartridge was invented (along with a machine gun to shoot it) by John Moses Browning after the lessons of WW1 showed that our boys needed more firepower to handle lightly armored vehicles, and to snipe at longer ranges.

The answer to your question is that a militia composed of the body of the people cannot be restricted as to the weapons it uses. The government, in fact, derives all of its power and authority from We The People, so we cannot be legally restricted by the government from doing something that the government can do. Of course, we are restricted - but that is in the nature of tyrannical governments. Another part of the answer is that Feinstein, Schumer, Kennedy, et al (including a bunch of R's) don't want to even think about one of the primary purposes of the militia (let alone to ever admit it in public), which is to prevent a domestic tyranny from arising via deterrence and, if necessary, by the use of force by millions of citizens against the likes of Feinstein, Schumer, Kennedy, et al and the goons they hire with our tax dollars. And don't believe me...look at the quote from a Federal Appeals Court Judge in my signature below.
 
The difference might be in how fast they take thye guns between the parties that is it. I still challenge anyone who thinks GWB is Pro Gun for a list of bills he has pushed for us. All anyone can say is the AWB wasn't renewed. First it come up BEFORE THE ELECTION. GWB needed the Gun Owners support. Then he kicks you in the teeth making an Anti 2nd amendment person like Gonzales AG. Can't wait to see who he wants on the court.
 
Bartholemew, they should vote down any bill with amendments attached, and then attach gun maker lawsuit immunity to another bill that will have wide support.

I believe that would work, anyway.

Do you feel it is inevitable and pre-requisite that we expect anti-gun legislation to be added on to the bill?

If banning private transfers of 50 caliber weapons is added as an amendment, then I think the whole bill should be voted down.
 
I would let the gun liability bill die again. No amendments, especially constitutionally offensive ones. Let them figure out who can afford to supply guns to the Pentagon.

Craig has no business making these deals. He can't deliver votes anyway. He can only agree not to resist the amendment or he can agree to cosponsor it. As others have suggested, this is a door opener for regulation of other calibers. It also gets more into regulating rifles like handguns.

Furthermore, the deal is only with Feinstein, placing no restriction on other anti-gun Senators, especially Schumer. It could still be another circus. Kennedy surely still wants a study on "armor piercing rifle ammo", and I am sure he would love to start singling out calibers like the .50 BMG as a warmup.

I would agree with others that the primary fight is the sporting purposes issue, because if they can accept, in the majority, that such restriction was never appropriate, the rest of the pro-gun arguments may start to make more sense.

Don't get the idea that keeping the amendment will not be supported in conference. If it isn't, Craig can't use the same deal again. It would have to be a serious deal.

The main problem is that the GOP is too weak on being pro-gun. They shouldn't need any Democrat votes and there should not be any concern about from where a majority vote will come.

Before anyone bales out on the GOP, consider that they need an even greater majority to have some margin for members that don't regard gun votes as important to the party. There is no reason not to believe that 60 or more GOP Senators is possible. There are also 13 Democrats in the House with outstanding pro-gun records that could be welcomed, if not supported, in any bids for Senate seats.
 
Lets pil;e on amendments of our own. Feinstein, get a .50 ban tacked on, and we will get an amendment tacked on reopening the NFA registry. Try another amendment? We'll get SBR's off the registry, and treat them like pistols (which they really oughta be treated as anyways). Anything else? We can still drop the handgun age to 18. Make a C&R available to use for ANY gun taht ain't in the NFA registry. Get rid of the stupid sporting clause for imported weapons.

Play their game folks.
 
In the interest of appearing reasonable I want to add my two cents:

You give 'em nuthin'!!!!

Compromise, dealing, and cowardice has done nothing but encourage their bad behavior. Give 'em nuthin' and after a while they'll expect nuthin'.

For too long compromise has been a one way street where we give up. Let them give us a list of things they'll trade away. :fire:
 
GUYS/GALS I EDITED THE FIRST ARTICLE

The second one is the real one.

Calm down! :neener:
 
Do you feel it is inevitable and pre-requisite that we expect anti-gun legislation to be added on to the bill?

Certain amendments (like the Boxer gunlock bill) passed with a wide enough margin that even the votes we picked up won't make a difference in stopping it. Few Senators have the courage to stand up and say that forcing consumers to spend more money on gunlocks that many of them neither need nor use is foolishness. I expect that amendment to be offered again and to pass.

In the meantime, we have to face facts that there are more anti-gun Republicans (eight) than there are pro-gun Democrats. Those Republicans will vote for cloture out of party loyalty; but when it comes time to pass an amendment, they will not vote with us.

I'd also add that there were several Democrats who voted against the AWB last time who could easily flip their vote (Reid and Feingold both come to mind). Feingold for example voted to support a ban on practically all centerfire rifle ammo, including .30-30 by name, but voted against an AWB renewal.

We certainly have a much stronger position than we did in March 2004; but we are a long way from being in a position to "not budge an inch" and still be able to pass pro-gun legislation. There is going to be compromise on this bill if it passes.

Craig has no business making these deals.

Craig didn't make any bill. The first post was satire by LAR-15.

Lets pile on amendments of our own.

We can add any amendment we can get 51 votes for. The problem is if we had 51 votes for the type of amendments you listed, we likely wouldn't need to worry about compromise.
 
>> In the meantime, we have to face facts that there are more anti-gun Republicans (eight) than there are pro-gun Democrats. <<

True! And that's the rub. While the Democrats, as a party, are the driving force behind gun control legislation there are Republicans who are all too willing to vote with the Democrats on gun issues, and sometimes many others. We aren't going to get far until that fact is realized.

I should know. John McCain is a prefect example of a true-blooded RINO - and he's from Arizona - but he wasn't elected through any effort of mine. Someday the local Democrats will wise up and run a conservative candidate, and the Republicans may get a nasty suprise ... :evil:
 
Feingold for example voted to support a ban on practically all centerfire rifle ammo, including .30-30 by name - Bartholomew Roberts

To be accurate, that amendment was to approve "a study", not a ban. Yes, where that was headed is obvious, but votes to approve a study, establishing some "facts", are not the same as votes to approve a ban.
 
Isn't it time we produced a .49 bmg cartridge? Or better yet, a .55 cal?

In the immortal words of Kip Dynamite, "That's what I'm talkin' about!"

To be sold at every street corner and gun show in Calif with impunity.
 
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