entropy
Member
Well, they DO do things different in Iowa......hope they're paying for them.
LASD Seizure of 553 Firearms
- Thread starter Twiki357
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Well, they DO do things different in Iowa......hope they're paying for them.
stchman
Member
With the huge budget deficit in CA, the guns should be auctioned off, not destroyed.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
MosinT53Hunter
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- Dec 15, 2016
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- 1,042
See, that's logical, common sense your talking about right there. Tell me the last time you saw anyone in CA use those two things when it comes to firearms, or anything else in general.
Choctaw
Member
You heard wrong.
fastbolt
Member
This sort of thing is heavily monitored nowadays.
I've seen a search warrant served on a cop's locker by a couple local DA's inspectors, looking (and finding) a couple crime guns previously stolen from another agency's Evidence.
Nowadays getting a firearm kept for training use, or any other legitimate LE use, typically involves getting an order signed by a judge to divert the specific firearm to a LE agency for lawful (after no longer being required as evidence).
Most evidence guns, once no longer needed for any further court proceedings, are destroyed. A favorite method from my former area was to have them melted down and turned into "sewer pipe/manhole covers" by a firm contracted for the task. (Imagine the armed escorts involved in the transport.)
It didn't used to be that way in earlier times, of course. Also, imagine what it was like when firearms weren't required to have serial numbers.
Some LE firearms delivered straight from the manufacturer to a CA agency might be ordered with an agency's ORI number stamped on them (typically a 5 digit number), or some other agency identifier (name and/or agency initials), which at least made it easier to determine the firearms were originally sold to a LE agency.
FWIW, considering the great number of older firearms pictured in the article's case, I'd imagine that a number of the older long guns, lacking manufacturer serial numbers, made for a long and tedious evidence-logging-booking process, and I'm glad it wasn't me stuck with the evidence report. The tracking isn't going to be fun, either.
Probably an interesting back story to this ex-felon's efforts to amass such a collection. Makes you wonder how many he'd been selling or trading, under the table. Hoarder, to say the least. Might be interesting to see if any are able to be ID'd as "crime guns", or whether he might've sold/traded guns to criminals for use in crimes.
fastbolt
Member
This isn't the 50's, or even the 60's, anymore. Nor is it a Hollywood movie.
You're retired LEO according to your sig.. How many Broomhandles, Lugers, P38's, P7's, Pythons, Mausers, Garands, etc. did you find at scenes?
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Old Dog
Member
Fastbolt has already put this thought to rest (thank you).
Asset forfeiture (from criminal activity) actually save taxpayers money, but there is a process, and it does not involve the responding officers placing dibs on an item they might think is neat ...
I do recall the case of one North County gunshop/range being shut down after a federal investigation in which it came to light that many of its guns were going down to Mexico ... although supposition that most of the guns in this case are stolen, it would seem plausible that many were straw purchases, too, as that was very common in SoCal when I worked there.
fastbolt
Member
You'd be surprised. When I was young cop it wasn't exactly unusual to see off-duty cops carrying P-38's. As a matter of fact, I knew a detective who was working a special unit and ended up being shot with a P-38 (survived his wound).
P38's, common revolvers (like Pythons or K-frames) and lots of rifles from earlier wars are all over, and that means criminals can come across them and use them. The "top ten" popular crime guns (for tracing) has changed now and again, as have similar compilations from other agencies. For a long time a S&W .38 revolver topped one fed agency list of most traced crime guns , and a 12GA pump shotgun wasn't too far down the list, but there was also the usual smattering of low cost "budget" pocket pistols. In more recent years some of the more modern pistols have understandably appeared and edged up in most lists ("understandably", because they're being stolen more often).
A couple just grabbed at random, some years apart.
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,320383,00.html
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/publications/firearms-report-16.pdf
I think the last ex-felon in possession of guns/ammo my partner and I ended up arresting was carrying a concealed Walther PPK/s, but in his duffel bag he had some other rifle & shotgun (can't remember the specifics anymore, but I think the rifle might've been an old lever gun), body armor and a lot of hi-cap rifle mags (not for the old rifle he had, obviously) and a few hundred rounds of assorted ammunition.
I can think of a handful of scheduled "buy back" events where one or another group of agencies ended up receiving an amazing number of firearms. At one of the ones done by my former agency, I was told that a HK SP89 and an original 1928 Thompson were turned in (apparently by the surviving spouses of the deceased owners). I was told that a lot of older rifles and shotguns were brought in, and many bolt rifles, most by people who had either inherited them, or had tired of hunting, shooting, etc. (Yes, I'm often a bit surprised when people lawfully owning some valuable firearms aren't interested in selling them to dealers, or putting them on consignment, etc ... but it's more normal than you might think.)
One guy at another event (in another county) brought in 97 guns, and didn't even want any money for them. Found an article for that one: http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/article/NE/20180324/NEWS/180329807
Anyway, I've seized, or had surrendered, some interesting and unusual guns.
I remember a Cobray M11 being surrendered by a guy's attorney (to negotiate no charges being filed) one time.
I even knew of a civil judgment levy on more than 60 firearms, once they were released from evidence in a criminal case (levied upon from the PD's evidence room at the final conclusion of the case, believe it or not). After a few of them were confiscated as unlawful assault weapons, the rest were sold at a LE auction to a FFL dealer, and they included everything from "junk" guns to very good quality guns (I remember an older M29 and a Browning Citori). That was a highly unusual case, though.
Anyway, over the years the needle on my "surprise factor" started getting increasingly harder to nudge when it came to the guns used by criminals.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Of course, there is no corruption in any government agency anymore. Not that there ever was.
JTHunter
Member
fastbolt
Member
Didn't say that. (Neither of those things.)
Riomouse911
Member
No where I’ve worked in the last 28 years has that rule,written or unwritten.
In Ca it takes a separate Court order, made after adjudication, to remove a firearm from the control of the Court (Search Warrant) to the control of a Department. I know, I have done the process and it’s a PITA.
From one department to another takes not only a Court order if the gun is seized in a search, but executive level (with letterhead) approval to transfer a gun from one to another, and all of those are reported to Ca DOJ here through CLETS. I’ve done that process, too.
I guarantee none of those guns will ever be anything but rebar in a few years unless the gun is stolen and returned to its owner (After they get approval from DOJ after a background check to possess it), stolen from evidence by a crooked employee, or (with a Court order) transferred to the Sheriffs museum in Whittier for display.
Stay safe!
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Hate to say it, but I hope that Webley Automatic gets "liberated" before the smelter. Just saying....
Riomouse911
Member
And yes, I’ve been on scene with cool guns like a Wildey .475 used in an elderly mans suicide to a pair of pristine WWII Japanese 7.7mm machine guns turned in when an elderly man passed away and his kids found them unused in their wooden crate in the attic.
You’ll see just about anything and everything if you stick around the game long enough.
Stay safe!
You’ll see just about anything and everything if you stick around the game long enough
. Stay safe!
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Seized guns in CA may all end up as re-bar or manhole covers but in Iowa any that have value go to law enforcement agencies and to the Dept of Natural Resources to be sold. Of course it is impossible for any insider shenanigans to occur at such an auction.
JeffG
Member
I’m surprised there’s so much anti-law-enforcement sentiment here.So glad I didn’t get seriously hurt doing your bidding for you.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I don't know that its anti-LEO, but recognition that cops are human, fallible, and come in the same shades of grey as all other humans.
For the most part, every cop I know and have come into contact with was professional and fair, but don't deny that there are those who skirt the rules or disregard them altogether, or that there are in fact bad cops. Just like there are bad priests and judges.
The crookedest Deputy I knew wasn't a bad person, really, and he really did try to help people who needed it, but when the opportunity to make extra $$ from off the books guns or confiscated drugs came up, well, he took it.
I was still glad to have a good working relationship with him and he had my back more than once.
We are blessed in this country to have the rule of law with less corruption than anywhere else in the world, but humans are imperfect sinners, one and all.
For my part, I thank each and every LEO for their service and support them wholeheartedly- even the imperfect ones.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
I am not anti law enforcement nor am I opposed to the state raising money from the sale of legally seized weapons. I also know there are a few corrupt individuals in every group. Law enforcement is no exception.
JeffG
Member
Maybe I'm just being touchy.
Hunter86004
Member
According to the ABC article: "Fernandez was sentenced to 486 days in jail for an unspecified felony conviction in February 2017, but was released in August 2017, according to jail records."
If this was his first felony, he may have acquired all these guns legally prior to his February 2017 conviction. The dummy should have made some arrangements to get rid of them.
If this was his first felony, he may have acquired all these guns legally prior to his February 2017 conviction. The dummy should have made some arrangements to get rid of them.
WestKentucky
Member
Anybody want to guess at the value of the seized property?? I’m guessing (assuming current value and bought legally) $350k would be close.
lemaymiami
Member
A few comments from a guy that not only did a career as a cop - but also was in charge of our property room (where all the confiscated or evidence guns were) and did destroy garbage cans full of old weapons.. and last - but not least ran an internal affairs unit for a few years towards the end of my career (in south Florida...).
Much fun it is to speculate about weapons seizures - but I wouldn't have wanted to be the young cops involved in that large seizure - since the paperwork would be an all day affair.. Each weapon would have had to be recorded carefully (make , model , serial number (or special notation if it had no serial - or it was removed...). Then each one would have to be checked against the national data base to see if it had been reported stolen... and none of that would be the end since any crime scene workup would have the officers sending that particular item (along with all accompanying paperwork...) to the appropriate shop (and we won't event talk about any federal interest (they're fond of showing up and listing local seizures as their own - as long as they didn't have to do any of the paperwork... (anyone that ever worked bank robberies can probably tell similar stories...) .
Anyone who thinks that seized weapons are handled casually has been watching too many movies (or bad TV cop shows...) since nothing a cop does can get him (or her) fired or prosecuted quicker than mis-handling (or stealing) a confiscated firearm... Are there a few cops who might? Yep, you can bet there are - and most of them are either dead or in prison somewhere...or are headed that way... In fact I can't think of anything that could cost a police chief his job quicker than an incident involving mis-handling of seized weapons by his officers ...
Pretty serious stuff. When I first read that some police outfits in other states routinely trade in seized weapons to gun dealers I had trouble believing it - since nothing like that would ever happen in any of the departments I knew of.. Yes, a confiscated weapon could be converted to department property then issued out to an officer - but all of that was very strictly controlled and never involved anything other than a quality handgun of a type that it could legitimately be used in police work. Anything else - no matter how valuable was kept as long as it was needed for evidence (and some of the weapons signed out to a court might have gone astray - but my department had a strict paper trail to document where the thing was last sent... )... When no longer needed as evidence and not suitable for conversion to department property it would be held pending destruction. We only destroyed seized weapons after a thorough review and had made an honest effort to contact an owner, if known and not involved in whatever got the gun seized - then we waited until we'd accumulated enough to make it worth doing. None of our weapons were ever melted down - instead they were dumped in more than 200 feet of saltwater - while the vessel was moving slowly (one of the few advantages of being in a coastal area... I had to certify in writing the destruction of each and every weapon during my tenure as property custodian - and you can bet that we dotted every "I" and crossed every "T". Lord help the officer that certified a destruction and the weapon later turned up on the street...
Yes, things were different back when I was first hired at the end of 1973 when the outfit that hired me had a very poor reputation and rarely followed procedures when no one was looking - when I left there 22 years later we were the first nationally accredited police agency in Dade county (now called Miami Dade..) and very squared away...
As a general rule anyone that screws around with items as sensitive as firearms (that almost all have serial numbers...) is just asking to get his (or her) head handed to them. I know - since I had to do that once or twice after some misconduct was revealed... Not something I enjoyed at all... The best part of internal affairs work was always when your investigation not only cleared an officer of some accusation - but also provided all the documentation needed for the officer to defend him or herself in any subsequent civil action...
I'm long out of police work but still get a bit cranky when folks who should know better routinely assume the worst from cops.... very rarely do you ever come across that sort of stuff - and usually something really bad happens to any cop that breaks bad...
Much fun it is to speculate about weapons seizures - but I wouldn't have wanted to be the young cops involved in that large seizure - since the paperwork would be an all day affair.. Each weapon would have had to be recorded carefully (make , model , serial number (or special notation if it had no serial - or it was removed...). Then each one would have to be checked against the national data base to see if it had been reported stolen... and none of that would be the end since any crime scene workup would have the officers sending that particular item (along with all accompanying paperwork...) to the appropriate shop (and we won't event talk about any federal interest (they're fond of showing up and listing local seizures as their own - as long as they didn't have to do any of the paperwork... (anyone that ever worked bank robberies can probably tell similar stories...) .
Anyone who thinks that seized weapons are handled casually has been watching too many movies (or bad TV cop shows...) since nothing a cop does can get him (or her) fired or prosecuted quicker than mis-handling (or stealing) a confiscated firearm... Are there a few cops who might? Yep, you can bet there are - and most of them are either dead or in prison somewhere...or are headed that way... In fact I can't think of anything that could cost a police chief his job quicker than an incident involving mis-handling of seized weapons by his officers ...
Pretty serious stuff. When I first read that some police outfits in other states routinely trade in seized weapons to gun dealers I had trouble believing it - since nothing like that would ever happen in any of the departments I knew of.. Yes, a confiscated weapon could be converted to department property then issued out to an officer - but all of that was very strictly controlled and never involved anything other than a quality handgun of a type that it could legitimately be used in police work. Anything else - no matter how valuable was kept as long as it was needed for evidence (and some of the weapons signed out to a court might have gone astray - but my department had a strict paper trail to document where the thing was last sent... )... When no longer needed as evidence and not suitable for conversion to department property it would be held pending destruction. We only destroyed seized weapons after a thorough review and had made an honest effort to contact an owner, if known and not involved in whatever got the gun seized - then we waited until we'd accumulated enough to make it worth doing. None of our weapons were ever melted down - instead they were dumped in more than 200 feet of saltwater - while the vessel was moving slowly (one of the few advantages of being in a coastal area... I had to certify in writing the destruction of each and every weapon during my tenure as property custodian - and you can bet that we dotted every "I" and crossed every "T". Lord help the officer that certified a destruction and the weapon later turned up on the street...
Yes, things were different back when I was first hired at the end of 1973 when the outfit that hired me had a very poor reputation and rarely followed procedures when no one was looking - when I left there 22 years later we were the first nationally accredited police agency in Dade county (now called Miami Dade..) and very squared away...
As a general rule anyone that screws around with items as sensitive as firearms (that almost all have serial numbers...) is just asking to get his (or her) head handed to them. I know - since I had to do that once or twice after some misconduct was revealed... Not something I enjoyed at all... The best part of internal affairs work was always when your investigation not only cleared an officer of some accusation - but also provided all the documentation needed for the officer to defend him or herself in any subsequent civil action...
I'm long out of police work but still get a bit cranky when folks who should know better routinely assume the worst from cops.... very rarely do you ever come across that sort of stuff - and usually something really bad happens to any cop that breaks bad...
Blue Feather
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- Jun 8, 2018
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- 97
This can’t possibly be true. California has some of the most stringent gun laws in the nation. It’s illegal for felons to own firearms.
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